Zoning Board Meeting · Webster Civic

Welcome to June 9th, uh, 2026 Town of Webster, New York, zoning board of appeals meeting. Um, as a reminder, uh, when we get to the public, uh, discussion uh, section, uh, time is going to be limited to 5 minutes per person per application. and uh discussion must pertain to uh the property and issues uh being reviewed. Um we have a total of seven um seven items. One was a table matter uh uh that we're seeing today. Um and then uh item number seven, Waterview Apartments uh phase three is being um postponed tabled until the July uh zoning board meeting. So if you're here for the uh the Waterview Apartment base 3, uh we're not going to hear uh hear anything about that tonight. Um and that'll be happening during the July July meeting. Um, board has the the right to end the meeting uh by 10 p.m. if uh if the

meeting starts uh going long. Uh I don't think that'll happen tonight, but if it does, uh we do have the right to to end the meeting uh by 10 p.m. Uh publications.

Okay.

Okay. Uh call for attendance. We need to go. [clears throat]

Mr. Short

here.

Mrs. Volo

here.

Mr. Senola

here.

Mrs. Dilio

here.

Mr. ASO

here.

Miss Corsy

here.

Mr. Chardy or Mr. DeMarco. I apologize.

All right. [laughter] He's younger. So that's good. [snorts]

Present.

Uh if we all stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat]

All right. Our uh first item is our zoning interpretation. I think Mr. Hannah was going to make a presentation. Is he in Is he still here?

There he is.

Good evening. I apologize for the delay. I didn't know whether uh there's a public comment section before we started or not. Uh this uh this is going to be a little bit different from what you guys are probably used to uh hearing. Uh typically, as I understand it, the uh zoning board of appeals is um in discussions with uh developers to discuss whether or not a particular project uh should be allowed under under zoning. And you hear you get presentations from the developer, uh PowerPoint, that sort of thing. Uh this is going to be a little bit different because for the f first time and I think this is very new and very cool. For the first time uh a citizen has actually brought a challenge to the zoning board of appeals to see if town uh conduct and town classifications uh for an existing project were done properly. Um so what I what I'm going to be doing is I'm going to be talking to

you a little bit about the law. I've presented each of you with a with a handout. I'll go I'll give you a little bit of background for a little bit of context and then to try to keep things as short as possible. Uh we will go through uh the process and the decisions step by step sort of uh combining what the process should have been with what the process actually was. That way I think uh things will be sped up pretty pretty well. Um there was a decision made in Albany some time ago that for better or worse it doesn't matter what you think of it. uh Albany decided that the landfill, the space covering landfill, including hazardous waste landfills, is just sitting out there all across the state. And they decided that uh that the those landfills could be put to better use if they had solar uh panels on top of them generating uh solar electricity. So, they wanted to encourage that sort of thing. They passed a new program and they passed a regulation to accompany that program and the regulation was designed like I said to encourage it. The best way to encourage it is to get rid of the obstacles for being permitted and the biggest obstacle is always

seeker. So what they decided was that uh they decided to change a regulation and say that if you put solar panel uh solar electric electricity generating uh facility on top of a landfill then we are going to decide per se that it's type two. That means there's no environmental impact. You don't have to do uh an environmental assessment form. You don't have to go through the whole seeker review process. It speeds things up tremendously and makes things a lot less expensive. And they do that because they wanted to they wanted to encourage it. So there's a company called Montante who said, "You know what? We could take advantage of that plan. Uh there's a a hazardous waste site on Xerox. And if we took a whole bunch of solar panels and put a power generating facility on top of that hazardous waste site at Xerox, we could get all of the tax benefits, all of the revenue, and we wouldn't have to go through the Seeker uh environmental process. So that's what they did. And I I I provided each of you with handouts. That's a picture of the site. Now, the hazardous waste site you'll see has black top over it. It sort of looks like a great big huge parking lot and around it is is a bunch

of mature uh virgin forest if you will. And their proposal was to put solar panels on the black top and to clear cut [clears throat] the forest and put solar panels there as well. So that's the background. What they did then is they submitted a a very very very incomplete uh application to the uh to the town of Webster. And this is where we'll we'll start talking about the process, what the town of Webster did and what it should have done. Uh the second page of the handout that I gave you uh talks about the parade of errors. The application was first submitted to Josh Artus Artuso but as I said it was most incomplete. What should have happened at that time is he should have taken a complete application made certain preliminary decisions passed it on to the town board where the town board looks at it and says is this something that we that warrants further investigation and if so then they vote to approve it and send it to the planning board to conduct that investigation. Uh but if after reviewing all of the information provided in a

complete application they decided no go uh then the application wouldn't go any further. [snorts] The problem they got the problem is that Mr. Artuso sent virtually nothing to the town board. They didn't have a complete plan. They only had a concept. the preliminary uh decisions uh were not were not appropriately made because they didn't have a full application. In fact, when the town board decided to send it to the planning board for further consideration, the former town supervisor talked about, well, yeah, this is about building putting solar panels in a field on Xerox. It wasn't a field at all, but it wasn't his fault because they didn't have any sort of information. What should have happened is Mr. Ruso should have should have told the developer, "Hold out. We're not going to do anything with applica the application until you give us everything we need." And only when they had everything we they needed should they have sent it to the town board. Now, the town board not is not faultless either. Once they once they got the application that contained virtually nothing, [snorts] they should have said, "We're not going to vote on on whether or not to send this to the planning board. We don't even know what we're voting on." That's not what

happened. Mr. Artuso sent the matter to the town board. The town board took the incomplete application and sent it to the planning board without any discussion, without any questions, without knowing what it was about. Uh now the planning board got it and they and they saw that uh they saw they excuse me after the town board sent it to the planning board. Finally, Monte uh decide got all of their stuff together and submitted it to the planning board. And the next page on your handout is a letter from Monte dated August 11th saying, "Here's all the stuff that you guys need at the planning board to review this." And uh we're requiring an industrial use permit and a special use permit as is required by town law. I have that portion highlighted to you. So now the now the planning board at least has a full application. [clears throat] Um, and what did they do with it? First of all, they only required that it be processed for an industrial use permit. They didn't require the special use permit as uh the town code requires and as Monte

itself acknowledged was required by law. Now, because they didn't uh require a special use permit, there are a whole series of questions uh that could have been asked and should have been asked for special use permits that were not asked. And those uh some of those considerations are attached in the uh handout that I gave you. Uh it looks like it looks like this. the IN industrial project and it lists A through N and and talks about all the things that uh that could and should be considered for a special use permit. So, under an improper classification or at least an incomplete classification, only industrial use, not special use, it sent the matter back to the town board with a stamp of approval and said, "We think that this is a good idea." Before the town board got to do anything with it, Montante made another important decision. They said, "Guess what? You know, all of those solar panels that we're going to put on the industrial uh excuse me, on the hazardous waste site, we're not going to do that anymore. We're still

going to clear cut all the trees and put all the solar panels where the forest is is now, but we're not going to put any on top of the industrial waste site." Well, guess what? That's the whole basis for getting the seeker type two classification without putting the solar panels on the industrial waste site. This is a class one uh excuse me a type one classification. They have to do all of the environmental leg work or at the very least it's an unclassified type and they still have to do all of the environmental leg work. What what happens then is uh is nothing that what the town board should have done is they should have said this is a this is a substantial change to the application that we have in front of us. Town law says that after planning board approval if there's a substantial change to the project it [clears throat] has to go back to the planning board. Substantial change is defined as a change of 10% or more. Montante admitted this this was 20%. So this should have been gone back to to first of all they should have said hold it the class the type two classification does not apply and this is a substantial change in any of it it has to go back to the planning board and the planning

board has to ask all the questions that it didn't ask Monte has to provide all the information that they didn't provide then the planning board has to has to vote on it generate a report with its thoughts send it to us for our consideration And that's what the planning board does. It gives counsel to the It gives council to the town board. The C, they didn't have any council. They didn't review this project. They reviewed a project with solar panels on the on the hazardous way site. Now, what was in front of the B town board was a was a project without solar panels on the hazardous west way site and only in the forested section. But what did they do? They didn't send it back to the planning board. Instead, what they did is they voted on it and said, "Well, this is contingent. We're going to vote to approve it contingent upon uh contingent upon having subsequent uh planning board approval. So, they've sent us to the planning board again still under ind with uh industrial use. The planning board should have changed the type two uh classification to a type one. It did not. It should have said you're required to have a special use permit. Even Monte

admits that. They did not do that. The town has suggested that sending it to the t sending it to the planning board after the town board has already acted was sufficient. Having it subject to planning board approval down the road is sufficient. We know that it's not. The law is written sequentially for a reason. As I've already stated, the town board had to have the benefit of planning board council and it didn't. There was a similar situation uh that occurred just last year uh with the New York State Legislature. The state legislature decided that it wanted to present uh to the voters a change, a constitutional amendment, a change to the New York State Constitution. The law says that before they can do that, before they can vote to put that issue on the ballot, they have to get a report from the attorney general's office saying that uh the proposed change would be constitutional and that the language that was being proposed was reflective of the legislaturator's intentions. That's got to come first. They didn't wait for that. They voted on Wednesday and they got the AG's report on

Thursday. And the AG's report said everything was fine, but they did it in the wrong order. And that went to the New York State Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court said, "You can't do that. You have to do it in the right order. The fact that you're approving something without even having the attorney general's report shows that you're not you're not following the law. you're supposed to take the attorney general's report and actually read it and consider it uh and factor it into your voting. And they didn't do that. The Supreme Court said you can't. Said that's no good. And they reversed it. What we have here is a project that has been messed up at every stage of the procedure. And because it has we it has it has uh an industrial use permit only which is insufficient and that means that it doesn't fit under the proper zoning. It needs a special use permit and I can if you have any questions about the difference between special use and industrial use. I'd be happy to discuss them. I've given you copies of uh of each legislation of each set of uh rules. But essentially what it is is the

industrial use uh uh permit regulations say everything that is allowed and it's not on there. That's why you have to couple it with special use which says okay if this is something that's going to be happen happening in an in an industrial uh lot but is not specifically authorized by industrial use regulations and you need a special use permit. And here are all the considerations that you have to meet in order to get a special use permit. And when the town board ultimately votes at the end of the day on whether or not to issue the special use permit, it has to go through each and every one of those considerations to decide whether the proposed project meets them. None of that happened. This approval is is procedurally deficient from top to bottom. And as a result, it is also so substantively deficient. It's up to this board to correct it. And that's what I'm asking you to do to to do to to indicate that uh that this project may not proceed until it goes back to the planning board and take until they take the proper procedural steps and more importantly until they consider everything that the law

requires them to consider. This isn't just an argument about technicalities. This is an argument about about the fact that the things that were supposed to be considered and debated and evaluated were not. Accordingly, the town's actions have to be reversed. They have to be stopped and they have to go back to the drawing board. Thank you.

Okay. You want me to start? Well, uh, is there any questions from the board?

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll I'm available for any questions you may have.

Understood. Thank you.

So, why don't you let me start?

Okay.

So, that we uh I can help the board decide perhaps what questions they want to ask or not ask. Sean, I'd look at you from time to time out of courtesy, but you're behind that pillar, [laughter] so no, you you can stay seated. I'm just I don't want you to think I'm rude.

No, I'm not.

Um, so look, as any uh good advocate uh would do, as Mr. Hannah does here. Uh you present a mix of fact with um your interpretation of the law and ultimately some conclusions that you want the factf finder which in this case is this board to make a final determination kind of just as you would if you were an appellet body or or a jury. And some of you have not been on the board when we've done this before, but we have done this before on one occasion this what was in the last year or so I can't remember

and I think it was a citizen that was outside of the applicant I want to say. So doesn't happen often but we have done it before.

So Mr. Hannah has framed the issues uh a bit more broadly than what I think your duties are here tonight. Uh certainly an argument can be made that with respect to a determination that Josh made had a cascading effect as this thing wound through the process. Um, however, I'm going to recommend that you focus on Josh's determination and much less so on the broadness of Mr. Hannah's representations. That may ultimately be correct, but your job is to review [clears throat] the determination that that Mr. Artuso made. And parenthetically, I would tell you that um uh the the group that is opposing the um approval that the town board made, I guess within the last 30 days, um has

um commenced an action in article 78 um that the town board acted essentially arbitrary and capricciously with respect to the determinations that's made significantly based on um many of the reasons that that Mr. Hannah set forth. So that that's that's as I see this in terms of setting the table. um as a threshold matter which is important here um typically and I guess it's not so typical as I said we've done this at least one other time and it may go back uh before my time you would see this closer in time to the town board who ultimately might make a determinative decision. um you you'd hear this board this this type of appeal would be brought before this board before that time because the statute requires um that when sitting in this capacity I I I'll read to you the statute which is town law 2674 says in in pertinent part the

jurisdiction of the board of appeals shall be appellet only and be limit shall be limited to in this [clears throat] case uh hearing deciding appeals from any reviewing or from reviewing an order requirement decision, interpretation or determination made by the administrative official charge with the enforcement of any ordinance or local law adopted pursuant to this article. Um such appeal may be taken by any person agreed which um Mr. Hannah represents. So that requirement essentially is that this board needs to be placed on notice of this circumstance within 60 days after that determination has been made in this case by Mr. Artuso. Um there is some ambiguity in so much as I believe the statute talks about um a a filing of Mr. Artuso's decision uh that shall be filed in the office of such administrative official within five days from which uh from the day which in it it is rendered shall be a public record. Well, we know as a practical

matter that Mr. Artus makes decisions similar to this on a regular basis and there's no official order per se, but oftentimes there's emails or other documentation that the determination was made. In this case, we know at the very least that there was a resolution of the Webster Town Board um on about July 17th, 2025, about 11 months ago, [clears throat] wherein that resolution contained whereas pursuant to the Webster Town Code, an industrial use permit is required for any use within an I-N district. So, the town board was acting, we know, at that time, based upon a an act by Mr. Artuso, limiting his recommendation as to what they needed to do um to just a um an issuance or review of the industrial um permit as opposed to um the special use permit or both uh as might be essentially. Mr. Hannah amongst other things argues that that is the missing link here and the fact that that

was not made a requirement uh caused the cascading again uh the applicant's opinion that all of these things that weren't reviewed that should have been reviewed that followed and again I'm not uh commenting or passing judgment as to uh the accuracy of that or not. So notwithstanding that I think this board first before it gets into the merits and we can we can talk and the board can ask questions if you wish um about uh the language and I think it's was it 155.6 that talks about requirements of a special use permit for residential districts which as we know this is not a residential district. Um uh but first I think the board should make a determination as to whether this application as an appeal of Mr. Artuso's decision is timely before you to consider. If you determine that it's not, it would be my recommendation that you need to go no further. If you find that it is, then obviously

the next step would be to get into the merits of Mr. Hannah's argument as to whether or not um Mr. Artuso's decision uh not to bring that to the attention of the town board. Um we can obviously get into that, but I I want to say that it is not this board's job to correct actions taken by the town board or the planning board. Um it it is really narrowly on that decision that Mr. Artuso made. [clears throat] But first off, is it timely or is it not timely?

Councelor, would you mind very much if I address that very briefly?

Sure. Thank you very much.

As I think you suggested at the outset, I'm sorry.

I know I couldn't hear back there either, so that's why I had to creep up. I apologize.

Yes, you're

I think uh I think as Mr. Mr. DeMarco suggested at the very outset of his remarks there was no official uh pronouncement from Mr. Artuso as to the type of of permits that were going to be uh required and in fact after the uh town board action that Mr. Marco described as having occurred in July. Uh there was still a letter from Monte indicating that they were seeking they they finally submitted the application which had been acted on you know without having received it. And when the application was submitted from Monte Montante specifically said we are seeking and we need industrial use and special use permits. They would not have said that if the issue had been decided. uh as is being suggested, it only became public, the industrial use permit uh component only became public on April 1st when Mr. Artuso wrote a letter to the various town board members and copied in uh a number of the

neighborhood residents saying that only an industrial permit uh was going to be required and here's why. That's when the clock started running. the you you start the you start the clock running at the latest uh at the latest time and that's when the clock started running and the appeal uh to this board was filed within 60 days of that letter.

Uh I I don't uh I don't disagree uh with the facts that Mr. Hannah has laid out. I may disagree with respect to his interpretation as to whether or not uh uh something being made public is u what the statute requires. statute. The statute addresses that it shall be a public record and I think as a matter of of practice probably in most if not all towns um that there is some type of communication made by a public official whether by email or otherwise because you could imagine that the amount of decisions that are being made there wouldn't be uh formal orders filed with the Webster town clerk in each and every instance. And that's why um I'm suggesting to you that we know that the determination was made part of the public record in the July 2025 resolution. But again, ultimately, this board has to make a decision here whether in light of the

requirements that is in your mind sufficient to trigger the 60-day clock and whether that 60-day clock has run. So, go ahead.

I'm going to just try and summarize everything I've heard. Um,

that's usually pretty dangerous.

I'm going to try. Um so [clears throat] as of right now the um uh I guess the the applicant for uh for the zoning interpretation there is a an article 78 at this point which uh has been filed. Uh I'm assuming that will be heard uh regardless of anything that this this board does uh at that point. Um and if I misspe at any point uh Mr. Demarco, please please stop me. Um, this board has the opportunity to um m make a determination if uh this um zoning interpretation is timely based on when the application was submitted based on correspondence that had occurred. um we could forego that move forward with

the zoning interpretation as uh itself if we deem it not timely. We could stop there. Um is that did I summarize that in a

I think that's gen I think that's generally accurate.

Okay. Um I guess questions from

and can I please

um Mr. Hannah, that April 1st um date that you've used to say it was made quote public close quote, what document is that or what do we have that document?

I thought I had submitted it with a it's a Yeah, it's an email from

Oh, okay. To from Mr. Artuso to the town supervisor and the rest of the board members.

That's correct. And some members of the public. And that's the first I I respectfully submit that's the first notice that the public ever had. You can't file a an appeal if you don't know what happened. And that's the first announcement to the public that this was uh going to be processed under an industrial use permit only. Notwithstanding that, you would agree as a a stipulated fact, if you will, that the portion that I read relative to the July 2025 resolution that that is as as I stated.

I have no reason to dispute that. I don't know. Personal knowledge.

Yep.

Questions from the B board?

Yeah. Um, Mr. DeMarco.

Yes. Would the I just want to make sure in my mind would the published minutes of the town board count as notification?

I mean above and beyond the resolution that was filed.

I'm not you know I don't know where where do our minutes go?

They're on the web.

They're on the web. So they're available to the public. I would think so. Yes.

So I mean that the fact that they didn't say hey look at this. we've approved or decided this was whatever

that that it's not necessary published but it is made public.

Yeah. I I think that would be considered to be the public record.

Okay. Thank you.

other questions.

I I be honest, I'm not I'm confused by what our role is here.

Sure.

Exactly.

So, as Mr. Hannah I think correctly uh wanted us to get our bearings because it it is true we don't play this role very often but it is a core responsibility of the zoning board to act as as a review board for the actions of in this case Mr. are too. So

if he determined that uh something should or should not come before this board. Um or perhaps in this instance whether uh he did not uh bring something to the attention of of the town board. Um, and so this board's being asked to review what it was that he did and make a determination as to whether or not he acted appropriately given the nature of the application. Um, and I essentially indicated to the board there's it's a two-step process. As in many things legally, the application has to be timely. It can't be stale. it can't [clears throat] be prohibited by a a statute of limitation or or like statute. Um, and in this case, there is a colorable claim that it might be or that it is. Um, there's some ambiguity uh in the statute as to timeliness. Um, so I'm bringing those to your attention to first decide whether it's timely or not. If it you determine that it is timely, then you should you [cough and clears throat] should consider Mr. Hannah's um arguments

and take a look at the at the law that's relevant to those arguments and make a decision as to whether you you think that there was an error uh by Mr. Artus.

So, I'm I'm going to try and give an example. Uh a little while ago, this board was asked to um make an interpretation on what is considered a front yard. Um when you have a property, I think was it last month or the month before property had roads on three sides, which one of those is a front yard uh or the front yard proper for setbacks, uh front doors, uh things of that nature? So that's one of the things that we're being asked to uh do is interpret um the the use u whether guess whether a special use permit was required. Um I don't think there's any um argument that this is in an industrial area but it's more of whether a special use permit was required. That's my understanding. Okay. Well, what happens if it's determined by this board that a special use permit should have been required?

Then the the board's going to have to go back and revisit it.

The town board and the planning board.

No. Uh but it doesn't kill the project. It just postpones it.

Correct.

It [snorts] could kill it. I mean, the developer might say it's too much time gone by. I mean that that is something that could happen but it doesn't necessarily kill it.

Okay. Thank you.

One more question for Mr. DeMarco. Whether or not Josh was correct in his assessment, the fact that we're uh I mean the way I look at it, not being an attorney, there's a lot of technical points that Mr. Hannah has laid out uh listed in his uh cascade of errors. Um, so whether Josh was or not, if it wasn't timely, it doesn't doesn't make a difference.

Well, the I understand the question. Ultimately, in the course of the article 78, a court could determine that the town board acted um without the requisite authority um and that the court sends it back to the town to consider something that it overlooked. and that ultimately may or may not change the decision as to whether or not the town board issues those permits. Obviously, Mr. Hannah is hoping that that's the case so that they feel that a comp a more complete picture um will end up stopping the project. It's uh to be determined if in fact they believe there is an error made or this board determines that there was an error made.

Thank you.

So if this matter were discussed in the July 2025 town board meeting, is it possible for us to pull up those minutes and read that resolution into the record so that we can see what was exactly said?

[clears throat]

That's not information that I would normally if if this board feels that it does not have sufficient information this evening to make a determination um and you indicate such then we can take steps to make sure that you have what you need assuming it exists. I I I think we need to see those minutes whether we review them now or review them. Probably reviewing them in detail would make more sense, but but that it is published on the town website, but we would certainly need time to review it.

Okay. Obviously, if

we can that should come through pause and do it now or

Well, that should come through through a motion if that's what the majority of

Well, yeah. So, I guess um in K I was actually thinking the same thing, right? It's um man, I I

scanning it quickly, but

Well, it's not even that, right? I think to your earlier point, the documentation that was provided to us um 5 minutes for me, 5 minutes before we started this meeting, um you know, I understand that there's the email from April 1st, 2026. I have no idea if there's any any previous documentation, so I can't sit here and say that there was. Um well I can tell you that I I had asked and and I don't know how comprehensive or complete but I wanted to determine whether there was emails from the department. Um again I'm not saying that an email from Josh is dispositive of the notification issue. Uh but I I have not yet been provided an email essentially on topic um prior to the resolution of the town board.

Well, backing both Mr. Short and Miss Holo, I'd like more time to go through the the resolution because I think we're kind of hanging it on a very technical issue. Whether or not that was the clock started then last July or this past April makes a big difference.

And I'm glad that you all had indicated. I I thought maybe I was missing the April 1 email. So now I know it just arrived. So, um, it it look I I can't quarrel with that. It's it's potentially, you know, something that's going to make your decision a little bit more clear.

We can table this, right?

So, sure.

So, I guess um before we table it, I guess my the other question I have um while we're sitting here, right, I mean, so that that's issue one, right? and we can make a determination on um whether it was timely or not. The other issue at hand is it's kind of the actual issue is the interpretation

uh of the z you know the zoning interpretation as well. You know if if we've determined again uh Mr. Demarco, if I if I misspe, please correct me. But if we've deter if we determine that we uh if it wasn't that this isn't timely, we could we could stop there, not make a determination on u on the zoning interpretation. Um however, we could theoretically skip that, still make a determination on the interpretation if we wanted to.

Correct. Um, so I guess I have questions for the board regarding the zoning interpretation. Has the board had an opportunity to read through uh and understand um Mr. Hannah's take on it? I know I've read it last month. I've reread it this month. Um, I do get hung up on, you know, is it uh 150-6 where it says a special use permit is required for residential areas. I get hung up on the fact that um when you're talking industrial areas, it industrial areas do allow uh I think it's energy uh generation if I remember correctly. Uh I'm looking for it right now. uh public public utilities, right? So I I guess I'm and I don't know is I mean all the solar fields that are out there when they're now tied into the grid, is that technically a utility? Um so those are questions that I have that I've raised uh for myself and I don't know if anybody from this board has had kind of

similar or not.

I I agree with you on that. It's it's it's it's still interpretation.

Sure.

I mean that and

that's what this board is for, right? But I'm saying I I it'd be much easier if it were cut and dry one way or the [laughter] other. And this fine with me I'm okay with that. Um but [cough] uh I my own opinion is let's let's wait. I'd like to see us wait so um this way we don't have to necessarily go through an entire debate on how we interpret it unless we really have to. My my other question is is uh we still going to open whether we if we decide to table it, we still need to open up to the public for comments, don't we?

I don't think so on the on the um appeal review.

Okay. I didn't I just

there's a different kind of attribution.

Okay. There's a lot of people here. I didn't want them to necessarily

but it's my understanding for an interpretation. It's not right.

Okay. I just

we don't have to.

Well, they need to know that. Not

understood. [snorts] So, um Okay. So, I guess I'm I'm going to ask the board before we put it up for a vote. Do we want to table this matter? I mean, is that that's kind of what I'm hearing.

Yeah, I say yes.

Okay. I mean, is it uh Erica or Karin, are we able to I mean, those minutes, are you able to I mean, I I'll look for them on on the web, but is it possible to get those sent out to us?

Mhm. Yeah, cuz they're they're right online.

Yep. Okay.

Well, we can send them.

I Yeah.

Yeah. Be

Please. Thank you. Um so Mr. Hannah at this point um and we're going to make a mo I'll make a motion that uh we're going to table this matter until the July meeting. Um you know again you you provided some uh some additional information kind of uh today which I know me personally I didn't get to see that. Um, I probably would have asked for some of this additional information earlier. Um, but with that we're

I might add it. It's actually good information to have. It is.

So, thanks Absolutely. I think you did a really good job from the few minutes I had to review it of presenting your case and what you saw as pertinent points.

Uh, and I'm going to par what other people have said. It just unfortunately we didn't have a chance to digest it versus just reading through it really quickly before.

Is there any additional information that would be helpful to the board that I could provide?

Any questions for

Mr. Hannah?

No,

not yet. I I guess I would ask if we do table this to the July meeting, if there's any additional information that you have for the board, please give us at least a week before the meeting to preferably two, but at least one to review it. Okay,

just so that we don't do the applicant a disservice as well. So, so, uh, I'm going to make a motion, uh, to table, uh, the zoning interpretation, uh, located at 139 Caracus Drive until the July, is it July 14th? July 14th, uh, zoning board meeting. Second,

Mr. Short.

Hi,

Mr. Senola.

Hi,

Mrs. Bolo.

Hi,

Mr.

Miss Dilio. Hi,

Mr. Forsy. All right. Um, Mr. Hard tabled until July 14th.

Thank you. Next up, uh, we have the Midnight Pole Barn located at 101 Midnight Trail. If the applicant, uh, can come up, please.

Um, before we proceed, can the board members just speak closely to the microphone, please? Thank you. retired.

Okay. So, we have a um property address 101 Midnight Trail. The applicant is Joe Herpst. Zoning district is large lot single family residential. request is a front setback of 44 feet where 75 is required and to allow the accessory building to be located nearer to the front property line. You are up, sir. Thank you.

Good evening.

Good evening. [clears throat] I pretty sure you all have the maps or have gotten the package. What was that?

I said I think you've gotten a package. Um this uh lot lends itself to a unique situation being over 1,000 ft off the road and the way the the access to the log cabin is and the orientation of the cabin turned sideways renders this the front yard. Um uh hence the reason for the variance. It's pretty much straightforward. 20. It's a 20 x 24 uh auxiliary building pole barn um construction. Questions from the board? So, it's going to be on the side of where the neighbor's house is, closest to the neighbor's house or on the other side of the the

When you go back in there, the driveway comes in off of Shoemaker Oaks West and it'll be on the south side of the driveway.

Okay.

There's a good illustration.

Okay.

On the area.

Oh, okay.

This is not my property. I'm actually acting on behalf of a friend of mine. He's in the military and he's the last two months he's been on four continents. He's not in town very often. So, I was helping him out to do this for him.

I think there was a letter in there giving you authority to uh act on his behalf, right? That is correct. I thought I saw

as well as a letter from the neighbors uh David and Dere on the south side there.

Did you say Fort Collins or Fort Continent?

Continents. Full continents in the last couple minutes.

Yes. Not continents. Continents. [laughter]

So why the location that was selected?

It's [clears throat] the first point of access when you come in from the driveway.

Um if you look at the uh layout of the map, it is pretty wooded. It's mostly pines like 80 to 90 foot pines. Um, this is already just a clear field uh where they used to have horses. And the topography once you get in the woods, topography drops about 15 ft. It's uh uh same elevation on the north side of the building, but drops about 15 ft on the south side and the whole thing is a hill. This uh lends itself to no cutting of any forest. Um it's uh the easiest access. It's still 200 ft from the lock cabin. So as you come in and as I park vehicles or whatn not still a good walk to get to the cabin but this lends itself to the most common sense area.

So um what I ultimately it's you don't have to cut any trees in our location.

It's flat.

Um that simple spot to put it.

Yes. Understood. Got it. Okay.

Other questions from the board? No, I just I was verifying the um the letter of approval we have is actually from the house that's located closest to it. The house that's located at 100

David Brown, correct?

I the sorry the 10 it's the 10 one identified as 101. Correct.

101 is where the pullburn is going and then 100 is the closest neighbor that are

Yes. Yeah.

Okay.

Which is I'm I'm familiar with that area having wandered those woods a lot with [laughter] young men. Boy Scouts. Scouts. [laughter]

Everything you're saying is public. You do know that.

I do know that. Anyway, um the the property does slope down as you head northward in the property. So, the further south you are within that parcel once you get off of the flag, the more likely you are to find a flat section. And it is an incredibly densely wooded piece of property. Um with this being the clearing where where the horse stable was or the horse paddic at some point in time. So it it does the least damage to the property to the woods and it's still there's enough woods between the neighboring property and this location that it truly isn't really going to be noticed.

I think that deer are going to be more disrupted than the neighbors.

Oh, they are.

Yeah, I agree. Um, other comments, questions from the board? No. Um, like to open it up to the public if anybody wants to speak for or against the uh the project?

Nope. Uh, bring it back to the board. Any additional comments from the board?

The uh just the siding on the on the barn

there was Yeah, it'll be uh metal steel and there's color I did submit color samples with it. It's tan and brown earth tones. It's natural.

Thank you.

All right. Um I'd like to make a motion for a type two action under seeker pursuant NYCRR section 617.5C of the environmental code.

Second.

All those in favor? I

um

I can run through.

Yeah, if you wouldn't mind.

No, I don't mind at all.

Thank you.

All right. Um, I will say this request is not out of character with the neighborhood in that a lot of those lots back there have accessory structures either along Shoemaker or as you go down a couple of the properties that back up to Midnight Trail or are on Midnight Trail. It the accessory structure will not be a detriment to any nearby properties. Um, it should be noted for the record that the closest property did submit a letter that they are not in they that they are in favor. They're not opposed to having this building be built. Um, and it it is achievable by any other method. It's a five plus acre parcel. However, it's the least detrimental to the land by putting it in this particular application. Um, the request is not substantial. It's a flag lot and what I would consider the front of the house actually faces the back of the property. So you could even almost call it the rear lot just based on house location. Um it's really not self-created. That lot has been back there, that property has been back there

for as long as I've lived in Webster. Um just with different ownership at this point in time. It's not an undesirable change. It will give the homeowner an opportunity to store their property and will be unknown to anyone other than the immediate neighbor and the homeowner.

And uh I'd just like to add I mean there's limited opportunities due to the topography of of the site

to be able to place uh the pole mark as well.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Um All right. If I can find my sheet of paper, I'll make a motion. All right. I'll make a motion to grant an area variance at 101 Midnight Trail allowing a front setback of 44 ft where 75 ft is required and to allow the accessory building to be located near to the front property line associated with the construction of a 480 ft pole barn on a 5.35 acre parcel having SPL number 064.02-1-11-11 02-1-11-11 located in an LL large lot single family residential district.

Second,

Mrs. Bolo.

Hi,

Mr. Short.

Hi,

Mr. Sulla.

Hi,

Mrs. Dilia.

Hi,

Mr. Corsa.

Hi.

You have your uh you have your variance. Um you still have to obtain all necessary permits uh to to be able to build it. You have one year for uh for substantial completion of the project.

Okay. Very good.

Have a good night.

Thank you.

Uh enjoy the summer.

Oh, I'm I am trust me. Once it shows up.

Thank you.

Yep. Uh next up, uh garage located at 514 Clem Road. If you uh applicant can come up. Applicant Michael Meyer uh located in the R3 single family residential district is requesting to allow a side east setback of 13.3 ft where 15 ft is required. We do have a single garage right now. My wife and myself do drive two vehicles. I'd like to build the garage a little bit bigger 24x30. We do have snowblower and all the other stuff that we have to put in the garage. Also, um I did give you guys a packet about uh all the neighbors and I had them sign it and they stated that everything was okay. And uh I just like to get the variance of a few feet. Questions from the board.

[clears throat] I don't have any

intent for um for the look. I'm assuming it's going to match the the house.

Yes.

Okay. Single story.

Single story.

Okay. Board have any questions?

No. Okay. Um I'm going to open up to public comment. Does anybody want to speak for or against this project? No. Bring it back to the board. Any uh any final comments from the board? No. All right. Like to make a motion for a type two action under Seager pursuant uh under NYCR section 617.5C of the environmental code.

Second.

All those in favor?

I would you like to do the findings?

I would love to do the findings. Uh the uh application uh as proposed would not uh have any impact to the essential [clears throat] character of the neighborhood uh as they're extending the garage. There is really no other [cough] excuse me [clears throat] no other spot on the uh on the property to expand the garage except on that side. Uh the variance is not significant. Uh the the property line is somewhat uh uh uh wooded I will say with with shrubs and trees. Uh the uh there's by approving this there'd be no physical or environmental conditions that uh will be negatively impact. And although um it is self-created, there's really no other choice for for them to expand the garage with uh without uh moving it entirely in two different spots. So uh in that respect, it is not entirely

self-created.

Anybody else want to add anything else to it?

It's not excessive in size.

It's a two-car garage. Well, it's a two-car garage, and it's just enough to make it a two-car garage and then going a little bit deeper. So, [clears throat]

and I think the neighbors across the street, most of them have two-car garages.

Yes.

Yep.

Yes.

Okay. There are a lot of twocar garages around.

All right. uh like to make a uh motion for 514 Clem Road for an area variance to allow a side setback of 13.3 ft where 15 ft is required in association with the construction of a new 720 ft attached twocar garage on a 0.26 26 acre parcel having SPL063.15-1-84 located in the R3 single family residential district under section 350-12 the code of the town of Webster.

Second,

Mr. Short.

Hi,

Mr. Santo.

Hi,

Mrs. Denilio. Hi,

Mr. Corso. Hi,

Mrs. Bolo. Hi, you have uh we've granted you your variance. Uh you still have to get your building permit and then everything else. Uh and you have one year for uh for completion.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Enjoy your summer.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, uh Bay Ridge uh subdivision. Property address addresses 423, 425, and 429 Ridge Road and 1036/1036A Bay Road. Applicant Scott Mes uh is properties are located in the R3 single family residential district. And these are all of the requested variances, which I'm not going to read out loud all of them. So,

hello. My name is Tom Sutherland. I'm here covering for Walt Baker tonight. And here with me is Scott Mes, who is the licensed surveyor for this project. Uh, he is very familiar with this property. And we are representing the owner, James and Lou. Uh they own all five parcels on this corner lot totaling roughly 2.4 acres. Uh current uses on this property include the mechanic shop on the corner of Bay and Ridge as well as multiple residential homes and storage barns. The three buildings on Ridge Road are serviced by public utilities uh including sewer, water, electric, and gas. While the two properties along Bay Road um they each have their own private septic system and all other utilities are public such as water, electric and gas. So while this may appear as a large subdivision, it's really just uh fixing some lot lines. So currently there's some lot lines that go through existing buildings. Um and we're here tonight to kind of dedicate each building to its own lot. So, we did receive preliminary planning board approval last week, and some of

their concerns were about the uh drainage on the southern lot or the uh the neighbor to the south. So, we added in a 15-in culvert to try and collect that water and drain water into the creek. So, the neighbor to the south is very happy now that that dried up his lawn. Um, another one would be another concern they had was power from the lot three barn, the frame barn provided electricity to the metal barn on lot four. So that uh connection is has been removed. So there's no power going to that metal barn on lot a proposed lot 4 now. And the last concern that they had was the subject tank on the guest house for the propo proposed lot 4 which would be 1036A. Uh we went out there and we looked at the septic tank and it was very old. It was a old steel tank. So we replaced that with concrete and made sure that the the leech field worked and it it was good. Um so we're here requesting a variety of variances. Um but we're here to um improve pre-existing non-conformity to make it a little bit less nonconformity. Can you go back to the plan real quick

because I was trying to study I'm familiar with the location trying to understand the red lines are what the existing property lines

the red the red lines are the existing

okay what is the proposed property lines then

the proposed are the thicker black lines so yeah where that mouse is so lot four um is the larger lot and then there's three lots to the north. Um

so is the metal sorry is the metal barn on its own separate lot?

The metal barn is with uh lot 4 and that lot consists of um the onestory building 1036 Bay Road. Okay.

As well as the block and metal garage and 1036A. 1036A is a guest house. So, we initially were going to put 1036A on its own lot. Uh, but the utilities for the house are in the basement of 1036. So, the water meter and gas meter in the basement of 1036. And, uh, that's what we decided with the planning board that it would be uh, better to keep it all on the same lot.

Okay. So, and this is where I I struggled. I see the red lines really well. You said the really thick uh, other lines. I'm not I'm I'm starting to see them, but I'm struggling seeing them. So,

they're not they're not very visible on the PDF on the plan.

I I I was looking at I was looking at the plan as well. Um

the paper the paper a lot more. I I agree. If you just were looking at this, there's not a lot of differentiation between the driveway and the property line. But on the paper copy, I believe it it it is much more clear.

Okay. I I remember looking at this and but I had the same question. What what's the red versus the black? But

I got it now. Okay. Okay.

Does this version help you see better?

It does. Thank you.

Thank you. [laughter]

I appreciate that.

Yep.

It's making me sound like an old man. Like I need glasses. Well, why do you think I took the paper cut down? [laughter]

So, Scott tried his best to keep the uh proper distances of 15 ft side setbacks. Uh but some buildings here only have 15 ft in separation.

Sure.

Between them. So, we believe that this is the best configuration.

So, is the I mean this is all one property now, correct?

Right now, it's five different properties. So you can see the red some of the red lines will go through um the existing buildings. So,

so I guess I'm going to summarize cuz this collection of properties was recently sold and within that collection of properties I had lot lines going through buildings and so therefore some buildings were were located on two lots as opposed to having each building have its own lot. So there's no additional structures being added to this.

There is no proposed structure.

All we're doing is neatening up the lot lines so that each each building is contained within a single lot and the lot lines are spaced as best they can apply to what are the preferred setbacks or the code required setbacks to to balance it so that should you need to sell one again, you actually can because it's

legal and appropriate. Yep. That's a very good explanation of it.

Thank you. Correct. Is there access to each lot without um some crossings from the joining?

Yep. Each lot has its own access and um utilities. So,

so utilities or access do not cross through another lot um other than the existing gravel old gravel driveway. Uh but that's not needed to access the lot.

The rema You're saying that one where the cursor is remains of gravel driveway.

Yes. Yeah.

All right. So, the twotory frame um that can come off a bridge. the two and a half story frame off of Ridge onetory block uh you can get from Ridge or Bay and then the onetory block including the metal barn including the block and metal garage and the onetory frame all of those uh access off of bay through that large

correct

correct and that that lot has two road accesses

correct

um metal barn you said that is no longer getting power from the frame barn

correct

or is it getting power from There is no power right now.

There is no power. Okay. Got onetory frame 103 one uh 1036A the leech field. Uh you guys did a perk test with it or

So that is that is we replaced the septic system uh the septic tank. So that was had the old steel septic tank which is

I thought you indicated that you checked the leech field and it was working. I was curious how you check the leech field.

Uh just by flushing it, making sure that it drains properly.

Okay.

B Chamberlain came out and did the deceptive system.

Okay. Questions for the board. Did Are we now putting two houses on one lot? that lot four the big one cuz before it looked like with the red line although the red lines do have to move I have no question there's no doubt about that but it now looks like the onetory frame and the onetory block I'm assuming is that a house the onetory block

yeah so it's 1038 one onetory frame is a guest house for 1036

okay but now we have two houses on one lot and you were saying that the reason that occurred is because all utilities are coming through 1036 to go to 1036A.

The the gas meter and water meter are in the basement of 1036 um for 1036A.

Actually, the water meter is shared. There is only a single water meter that feeds both. Got it.

The gas meters are separate. The electric meters are separate, but they are contained in the basement of the forward house.

Correct.

Okay. They that is one of their requests to allow two residents is on the same lot.

Yeah.

So,

Yep. Okay.

Other questions? Who who issued the permits to begin with? [laughter]

Was there any long I was going to say it's been there a long time. I I well and granted they were all sold as as one

one collective sale, but how did this how did the sale ever go through with

somebody took the risk?

So many buildings roll the dice.

Yeah. Take the risk. Yeah.

It is a very unique lots.

Yeah, for sure.

Other questions from the board before I open up to the public? Uh, anybody want to speak for or against uh this this application? Please come on up. Oh, uh, bring it back to the board. Any additional comments from the board? I think it's a uh good uh design trying with the with the intent of potentially selling each structure, which would have been even harder if you did it individually.

Yep.

Based on the existing lot line. So, I think it's a they did a good job.

All right. I'm going to make a motion for a type two action under secret pursuant under NYCRR section 617.5C of the environmental code.

Second.

All those in favor?

I I find

um before you do the findings, do you want me to keep

this up there? for sure. [laughter] Overall, the uh the action will not uh impact the essential character of the neighborhood as there are lot lines and no one will even know where they exist. Uh while there might have been other alternates considered, this is probably the the best solution to make sure that each building uh at least each well each building I will say has at least a a noticeable and minimal setback for a lot. uh the variances requested are not substantial, especially when you consider uh that there are existing buildings going over uh multiple outlines. And um it uh there won't be any potential impacts on drainage, traffic, dust, or noise or public services. And the applicant has already stated that they've added a culvert to improve drainage for one of the lots. uh the uh the the application is not

self-created. It it's been there for a while and they're doing the best uh uh job they can to make them as compliant as possible. Uh with that in mind, they uh Okay, get that's that should do it. Sorry. [snorts]

I was going to say we can we can do these setbacks under the

motion. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, at the end of the day, it's it's trying to correct um decades of

of wrong, right, is is ultimately what this is trying to do. Anybody else want to add anything to the uh to the findings?

No. Okay. Um like to make a motion for the Bay Ridge uh resubdivision uh located at 423, 425, and 429 Ridge Road and 1036 and 1036A Bay A Bay Road. Uh

second.

Yep. [laughter]

Just too short. Uh the applicant is requesting uh a multitude of variances. I will go through those uh shortly. um in association with a proposed um re-ubdivision lot line adjustment of five single family residential lots into four single family residential lots totaling 6 uh 2.5 acres having SPL uh 078.18-2-9 078.18-2-10.2 2 078 uh8-210.1 078- uh8-2-11.11 and 078.18-2-11.2 2 located in R3 single family residential residential district under section 35-12 and 350-36 of the town of Dakota Webster. the area variances sought um lot one existing uh front setback of

22.3 ft off of Bay Road where 50 ft is required and 22.5 ft uh off of uh Old Ridge Road where 40 ft is required. Um looking for a proposed rear setback of 8 ft where 50 ft is required. Uh and a proposed area of 10,919 square ft where 22,000 ft is required for lot 2. Um existing front setback of 9.8 ft where 50 ft is required. uh proposed side setback of 12 ft where 15 ft is required. That was for the house. For the garage, proposed side setback of 7.5 ft where 15 ft is required. Proposed uh lot area of 12,647 ft where 22,000 ft is required. Uh proposed lot width of 92.22 22 ft where 100 ft is required. For lot three for the house, existing front setback of 13.1 ft where 50 ft is required. A proposed rear setback of 45.4 ft where

50 ft is required for the barn uh that is on the property. A proposed rear setback of 8 ft where 50 ft is required. a proposed uh and a proposed area of 10,624 square ft where 22 square feet uh 22,000 square feet is required. Uh proposed lot width of 79.42 ft uh where 100 ft is required for lot 4 in the final lot. Uh existing front setback of 27.4 ft where 60 ft is required for the guest house. An existing rear setback of 10.4 4 ft where 50 ft is required. For the garage, a proposed side setback of 18.2 ft where 15 ft is required. Um an existing rear setback for the garage of 18.3 ft where 50 ft is required. And uh also to have two residences, a main and a guest house where only one is permitted. Second.

Did I miss something? No.

No. Okay. Okay, we're good.

Yep.

Mr. Short,

hi.

Mr. Senola,

hi.

Miss Dilio.

Hi,

Mr. Corso. Hi,

Mr. Walla.

Hi.

You have your variance. Um, you have other I'm assuming there's other things that you have to go through to to get this finalized. You have one year for uh for completion.

Yes, we'll be at the planning board meeting next week for final approval. Next month.

Next month. Okay. Next month.

Thank you very much. Enjoy your summer.

Thank you. Okay.

Thank you very much.

Next up, uh subdivision lot, uh located at 1640 Lake Road.

You can go ahead.

Good evening. My name is Brian White with McMahon the R Associates. I'm here tonight representing Mike Severki of Triple Family Asset Group LLC who's the applicant of this application. We are proposing a two lot subdivision located at 1640 Lake Road. For context, the property is approximately a tenth of a mile east of Salt Road between the north edge of Lake Road and Lake Ontario. with our proposed subdivision. Um again, it's a two parcel subdivision. Um along this area will require two area variances for minimum lot width. By code, it stipulates that the minimum lot width should be 250 ft. For lot one, we're proposing a lot width of approximately 162 ft and change. And for lot two, we're proposing a lot width of approximately 177 feet. The exact dimensions are noted in our application. For additional context, um the applicant is proposing to purchase lot one. Uh the

applicant also resides along the westerly side of this property. The owner of 1640 Lake Road is currently selling the property and with that arises the opportunity for the applicant to acquire this land east of where he currently resides. The parcels conform with the remaining dimensional lot requirements. Uh minimum lot acreage of 3 acres. We meet that. We're only requesting uh area variances for lot width. It's our opinion that this configuration is very consistent with the adjoining properties. Uh it almost stands out as it is today. It's one of the the last ones that hasn't been subdivided historically. It's also noteworthy that uh the three parcels east of our subdivision were recently uh granted area variances for lot with in August of 2022. So they had similar same variance request uh similar distances that were previously approved. The proposed lot line falls just north of a uh natural low-lying area. So it is a natural boundary. We've chosen the lot width for lot one as it aligns with an

existing access easement that runs north and south along an existing driveway servicing all these properties. So, we feel that it's a natural location as we've drawn it here tonight. Be happy to answer any questions you have or provide additional clarification at your direction.

So, uh just clarification, current lot uh current lot width without the subdivision does not meet the code. Correct.

Yep. The exact existing lot width as it is today is

18181 ft in 003. Correct.

Yep. Understood. So um

now I [snorts] will note that the large lot denomination or or [snorts] numeration was added to the code. I'm going to say approximately 30 years ago. This property was this property long before large lot existed. So the width was probably appropriate

at that time.

At that time.

Yep.

Other questions from the board. So just the applicant to the west uh the house the house kind of in the middle there, right? Uh 1636. It's where the cursor is. Is that correct?

I do not. Uh, nope. It's just south of there. Are you referencing the applicant's location?

Uh, I think you said the applicant is purchasing

lot applicant is purchasing lot one and resides at 1636 Lake Road, which is uh sharing the common line west of lot one.

Okay. Okay. So, the applicant does not own the the lot to the east of them. That's correct. Okay. So, we have approval for the subject property at 1640 Lake Road. The applicant is not the owner of 1640 currently. He has, you know, arrangements to purchase lot one. He has arrangements to act in that owner's behalf to do the subdivision so he can purchase lot one.

That's correct.

That's correct. Yep. So,

do we need a uh proof of the uh purchase offer?

I

we um provided uh owner authorization from the current land authorization here. I must have there. That's fine.

Okay.

I saw it somewhere.

Okay. There we go. That's helpful, Erica. Thank you. I do have a similar um hard copy of what Erica's depicting currently if that's useful to anyone from the board. There's Can you clarify one thing for me, please? You're saying that the buyer, the applicant, is to the west of the subject parcel. Doesn't that mean that in order to connect the two parcels, not that he's going to want to connect them necessarily, but he's got to cross the driveway for the remaining parcel to go to the back? That's the way it looks on the map. Yes. So, there is an access easement existing over the the driveway that's there today. The intent is to have a standalone new parcel known as lot one um which would require the area variance for lot.

But who's is that an intent then to combine it with his existing property?

That's correct.

Okay. Thank you. You said you provided the authorization from the current property owner. You have that, Erica?

I didn't see that in the Okay,

I didn't see

that's fine. We have it. Okay. Uh, that's all the questions I have. Any other questions from the board?

No, it's so common along that section.

Um, open up to the public. Anyone Anyone want to speak for or against this? No. uh bring it back to the board. Any other comments from the board? No. Like to make a motion for a type two action under seeker pursuant under NYCR section 617.5C of the environmental code.

Second.

All those in favor?

I [clears throat] findings.

Sure.

Yeah. Okay.

The request is not out of character with the neighborhood. There are several parcels both to the east and west of this that have done similar subdivisions. They're all um originally relatively narrow, like less than 200 ft wide and deep going from Lake Road all the way to the lake. um the benefit is not going or the change is not going to create a detriment to nearby properties. The um only property that this would really impact is the property to the west which is the purchaser of the lot one. The benefit um really cannot be achieved by any other method. You could move the lot line but 3 acres is the minimum that is required because this is now a large lot. Um, there are no adverse physical or environmental impacts to the site. The dividing line is roughly where there's

I don't know if it's technically a wetland, but it's at the dividing line. It's it's a wedish area. It's it's the logical location to to put the break in.

Um, it's not an undesirable change. And and I will note that the lot width um is substandard based on the fact that these lots were put into the large lot district after long after they had already been established as lots. So um they did not have an opportunity to comply with the lot with from inception. Anything else? All right. With that, I will make a motion to grant an area variance at 1640 Lake Road to allow a minimum lot width for lot 1 of 162.45 ft and a minimum lot width for lot 2 of 177.45 ft or 250 ft is required in association with the subdivision of an 8.3 acre parcel having SPL number 036.04- 04-1-21 located in a large lot single family residential district.

Second.

Mrs. Wolo

I.

Mr. Short.

Hi.

Mr. Santo.

Hi.

Mrs. Dilio.

Hi.

Mr. Osa.

Hi.

You have your variance. You have the rest of the uh steps that you have to go through one year. Thank you.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Next up, uh, applicant at 1813 Hellsworth Lane.

Applicant Christian Lake.

Like, yes.

Yeah. Located in

I um Oh, sorry.

You're good. Located in R2 single family residential district is requesting a special use permit to allow no more than eight hens.

Correct. Um, I do have some signing signatures from some of the neighbors. Um, as well as a packet I have for the board. Um, I didn't make enough copies. I apologize. I thought there was five board members that would be here. Um,

there is five board members.

Um, I know there was some uh neighbor concerns that I have to address and then um kind of going over the plan overall as far as what we're looking to do. Um I know Miss Bull was on site yesterday and kind of walked through as well with um taking a look at the property and the proposed plans. Um but uh my family and I are requesting to do six hens for egg uh eggs for our personal consumption um as well as for you know teaching our kids and everything to go along with the garden and everything like that that we have. So, um there's uh I felt we put together a pretty good plan as far as what we're going to do to house them, protect them, make sure that they don't get out. Um as well as even down to the breed that we went with to ensure that it was aligned and didn't take away from the aesthetic of the neighborhood. Um and the and they would be as quiet as a hen can be, right? There's no roosters allowed. So, um we put together, I think, a pretty good plan as far as what we'd be looking to do. Um, you know, I don't know if there's any questions from the board or any or where we'd like to start with on the review process.

Questions from the board?

Can I identify um when Erica has a chance to pull up the plan location? It's going to be in the back partial where the uh the red box is identified up on the screen.

Is that correct?

Yes. Yep. And then if you look at photo three, um that is exactly where like if you're looking from the shed to the left there, that is where it would be placed to kind of give you an idea of the placement. I have 10 ft behind that fence due to an easement. Um so there'll probably be about 10 ft between where the coupe and the run would be. Um and then that' probably have about another 15 to 20 feet to the back of the property line. Um and then in photo seven. It kind of gives an idea there um as well where you can see the gray box. The garden is located on the other side of the shed. I apologize to the board. I um the plan

didn't download into the folder this afternoon that I created. So you'll have to look at the paper copy in your packet.

Okay.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

So the um

the neighbor support petition uh that you handed me.

Yes.

Uh looks like we got 1818, 1814.

Yes. uh 1820 and 1809.

Correct. I had others that were on board, but I could not get their signatures beforehand. So, and then um it did turn into kind of a neighborhood situation between some folks and I didn't want to involve anybody any further. So,

um I left it as is as of today. The lines you see was my youngest daughter thinking her signatures would help. She's [laughter] I apologize. Uh she decided to That's Rya's name.

Okay, fair enough. How old is your daughter? Uh, I have three kids. One is five, one is seven, and one is 10.

Was it the 5-year-old?

Yes, it was.

Uh, did you have conversations with 859 uh Bannerwood Drive since you're since the coupe is going to be identified in the back?

Yes, I did. Uh, Brian Lipa, him and I spoke in depth on Saturday. He's fine with it. He actually thought you could have chickens in Webster without having to go through all the variances. He's a contractor, so he gets that sometimes. Uh, Brian Lipa was on board. Um I did think 1817 was it's to my understanding that they have sent in a letter otherwise so I did not get a signature from them. Um and then 1811 um there's been a long dispute since our fence went in unfortunately. So um they were not on board. We we could put the Taj Mahal up there for them and they wouldn't be on board.

Understood. Okay. Um, you said 1817 was one that you think was

Yeah, we spoke to them originally the day I got the call I believe from Erica that the postcards were going out and the sign would be going up. I started knocking on doors then we spoke to them. They wanted to kind of see how we were going to um secure the hens and then what our plan was. We went over it and they seemed fine and then um something changed afterwards. So unfortunately for them I think a lot of it was around noise.

Yeah. I I I have 1817s. Um oh these all become part of the um determination or do they not? No.

Okay.

Those are public comments made by neighbors.

They are public comments made by neighbors. Yes.

They send in that part of our record. So it's part of the record.

[snorts]

Oh yeah yeah yeah that's fine understood. Um so I to your point one of the concerns that I'm looking at here um talks about I guess ultimately animal management not so much the chickens in general um and visibility. So, how are you ultimately what is the um the coupe uh going to look like? How are you going to maintain that coupe?

Yep. Moving forward.

I don't know if you have the pictures in the pamphlet pictures.

Um I provided uh two the both options in there that we we've actually already they've been delivered. I can return. Um they were on sale, so I did order them from Tractor Supply. Um, but we will have a coupe that will be able to attach to a run, an 8 by8 like uh run essentially that will have a roof over it that we can then put a it's like a mesh tarp is the only way I can describe it. This will help with uh making so hawks can't get in, they can't get out. Um, we plan on having cameras, solar cameras like I have on the back of the house onto the coupe as well. Um, so that we're able to monitor it as well as a lock on the door. Um, so kids can't get in, other folks can't get in and they don't get out by accident. Um, there will be a solar door for the coupe to allow the chickens to come in and out um, at dusk and dawn um, and also help keep out predators. Um, so some some of the other options as far as what we'd be looking to do is is also we'd be putting more arborites around it. We plan on planting different flowers to help with the aesthetics of the coupe so that it blends in more um and it's just not like an eyesore to some folks.

Okay, other questions from the board.

Just in terms of the approval, if we approve this tonight, it's good for one year and then he has to come back. Just clarify. Yeah. And and it's um yes, still, you know, still has to maintain uh all other town codes. If there's any issues, uh neighbors uh have the ability to to call it in if necessary. Um but yes, uh we have the ability to provide a special use permit for up to 5 years. Um for a firsttime applicant, I would not suggest going beyond one year. So, it's a trial period basically.

Yes. Yeah. Uh Karin kind of went over that um the other day. If you go to exhibit D, I put together the plan that we plan on doing as a family with the children for the daily maintenance, the weekly, monthly, quarterly, as well as winter maintenance. We have found um the coupe we went with allows uh it has a vent at the top so it can properly vent throughout the winter. Um we will be using a different type of bedding, a hemp bedding because it's a little bit more dustfree. Um, it gives better warmth and it overall keeps any odors and anything down like that as well. Um, we're surrounded by farms anyway in our subdivision. There's a cow farm right there on Ridge Road. Uh, I I highly doubt the chickens would create any smell if we can't smell that loud that or smell that large, you know, cow farm. Uh, so uh I've worked with the neighbor across the street. Her name is Tiana. She used to have 30 chickens at her old resident. Christy Tummani on there as well. had some at her residence on Lake Road. Um they've walked us through some dos and don'ts as well as like I said we down to the breed. We went with a Bard Rock. Um it's one of the older chickens I guess in America. I've learned more about chickens than I ever thought I would in my life. Um but they are known to be extremely friendly. They're more like a pet. They like to be held pet. Um they're they coup. They're quiet other than, you know, when they lay the egg,

you may hear something. Um, but I plan on trying to do my best to put more um, bushes, arborites, things around it to kind of shield some of that sound the best I can. Um, from my understanding and the people I've spoke to, I did have to put an order in for the eggs because I wanted all hens. So, you have to pay extra. You have to wait time to get them. Um, they probably won't be hatched and delivered to us by the end of July. I apologize. Um, and then my understanding is by the time they get to me, they're 2 to 3 weeks old at that point. Um, and they'll be inside somewhere for three weeks until they get feathers and can go outside. Um, so that gives us time to get everything properly set up. Um, as far as food storage goes, that gray uh, bin that you see in the picture there on the side, I have gotten some um, you can get them for dogs, but it has a seal on the inside so that you can seal it. This way no rodents or anything can get in there and start to go through the chicken feed. Um, I I mean, you name it. I I think this probably cost more than I ever anticipated, but I wanted to make sure that I was not going to upset anyone further. Um, like I said, there has been issues when the fence went up and that's caused some disruptions unfortunately with the neighbors and um I hope I've shown that the property is upkept. None of the stuff that I don't agree with in

those uh statements is there. Um I even I couldn't get it. My landscaper, he sent a message to me that he confirmed there was never any dog waste. If there is, it's seldom. My dogs go in two spots really in the yard and it's off to the side nowhere near the chicken coop. Um, but my I pay to get the the grass taken care of through Pinnacle once a month and also do extra treatments for crane flies to make sure that we don't have any issues with with the uh the June bugs coming up and everything. And then um I do have a landscaper that comes every single Thursday and mows the lawn front back and weed wax all the way around. So, I'm a little disheartened by some of the comments that I heard were put out there, but I think I've shown in the pictures as well that, you know, there might be times where maybe there's some, but I think every animal owner has had times where I've seen everybody out there picking up extra droppings cuz they may have missed one. But, um, I have three kids, like I said, who play, tons of kids who come over to play. It's a very busy neighborhood. Um, and that's keeping the backyard safe, um, for them is is the highest priority first and foremost. So, um, like I said, disheartened to hear those statements, but, um, I I think I've shown in the pictures, that is how the property is upkept. My wife and I work very hard. She's a nurse practitioner. I'm finishing up school. I do, uh, network infrastructure for charter

communications. Um, we're both respectable people in our fields and and with our friends. So, um, it's just unfortunate that fence caused some people some issues and it's lingered for years now.

Yep. Uh Erica, I think I saw no uh no outstanding issues or anything if I recall correctly, right?

No, not on record.

Okay, thank you. Uh any other questions from the town board or from the zoning board?

Yeah. Um exhibit E, you reference a landscape plan.

Yes. Um that's where I kind of referenced that. Um I'm going to order I went on the website this morning to pick out I don't know if I want arborites or a different type. We kind of like the cypresses better, but we are going to along the fence line there. Um, as well as because of some of the disruption, I have contacted the company who put in our fence and I'll work with the town to see what I can do. Um, there's extenders that I can do to give more privacy. It's a 4ft up to the property line. At the time when I did it, 6T wasn't approved. Um, I did find out there are aluminum extenders I can put across the top to give privacy and then they can do like a weave on the bottom with like a vinyl so that it it pretty much gives me a blackout uh uh fence to do that. But I do still plan until they can figure that out cuz I don't know cost um to put more arborites along that side. Um and then plan if you look that's why I highlighted the swim spa there. Uh similar plan to that with the landscaping. Um, I I read that certain flowers were better for the hens like uh blackeyed susans. Um, what's the one we put down for to keep uh bugs out of the garden? Um, Maragolds. Yes, thank you. Uh,

Maragolds, Black Susan's, and some of the others. And then um that would be all around.

It's good for color. Doesn't do much for screening.

I'm sorry.

That doesn't do much for screening.

No, but I was trying to also think of visually appealing. It's not like the thing it has potential to look really nice.

Yes.

My question why I was asking is it your intention to put the arbory along the rear lot line or along your border with 87 or um 1817?

Both.

Okay.

Both. There's a giant uh lilock back there on the back side of the corner and then there's two giant pear trees right there behind where it's going to be. [clears throat]

Um but I do plan on doing both. Um, and then as far as compost, I do have a compost um, that I built in the back. I have to build the lid for it, but I understand I can put it in compost um, and then let it do its natural thing and use it in the garden in years to come. So, that was the other plan for the waste if that came up.

So, to just for clarification, um, the chicken coupe and chicken run are going to go next to the shed, correct?

Based on the screen [clears throat] that we have here, right? Yep. Yep. Thank you, Erica. Um, your plan is to plant I'm going I'm going to call it arborites. I'm using as a generic term, but some type of evergreen

screening correct

along the back side of your fence on the uh I'm going to say it's the north side.

No, the opposite side there.

So 1817 has the pool

over here. Y

and the one picture that I took their house can't even see where the coup's going to be because of their 6T privacy fence. I'm still going to put something there just in case they're in the backyard on the swing and it they have no visual of it. Um

so your plan is to put uh our provides on the north property line.

Correct.

Where and then on the east property line.

Correct.

Okay.

Yep.

Thank you.

Any other questions from the board before I open up to the public?

Good. Anybody uh open up to the public? Anybody want to speak for or against the project? Uh feel free to come on up. [cough]

No. All right. Uh back to the board. Any additional comments? [cough] No. Okay. Uh findings.

Oh, no. You're right. I have to do. Thank you. Uh, I'd like to make a motion for a type two action under seeker pursuant under NYCR section 617.5C of the environmental code.

Second.

All those in favor?

I now the findings.

No.

We don't Yeah. We don't run through the traditional findings. We run through the special use criteria. Correct.

Correct. It's been a long night.

Um, the use will not prevent the orderly and reasonable use of adjacent properties or properties in adjacent use districts. Um, they're all residential in that area. Based on the location for my visit to the property, um, where the coupe is going to go, it is really only going to potentially be visible to two neighbors. and the applicant has indicated that it and and I guess I would agree based on my visitation that between his screening and the location, it's not going to prevent anybody from using their property in any way, shape, or form. Um the health, safety, and general welfare of the town of Webster will not be adversely affected by the proposed use and its location. And I would agree as long as the um chicken coupe is maintained as proposed by the applicant, the use will be in general harmony and pro

well the comprehensive plan is in process but um in general harmony and promote with I I would say the direction that the town tends to be moving in. We've had I'm just going to side note in the past two years 8 10 at least three or four a year.

Yeah, we do get three or four a year of this exact application. I think um people are just more cognizant of the quality of their food source and where their food is coming from. And um it's certainly a good project for kids to learn responsibility and and the whole food chain. Um not it will not interfere with the preservation of the general character of the neighborhood in which such building will be placed. And again, it's going to be screened appropriately between the shed and plantings. And it's in a location that is at least 20 ft from the rear lot line and probably at least that much from the other lot lines. So, it's not right up against anyone else's property. And um the location within the lot is really the most logical with respect to keeping it screened within buildings and as far away from other residences as possible. Um and the use will provide the appropriate landscaping to buffer this from surrounding land uses. Anything anyone would like to add to that for me? No. All right. You want to?

I must.

Gotcha. Uh, I'd like to make a motion uh for a special use permit located at 1813 Milessworth Lane um to allow an 8 foot by 8 ft chicken coupe and no more than eight hens on a 0.42 42 acre parcel having SPL 0 uh 81-02- 8 081.01-2-84 01-2-84 located in an R2 single family residential district under section 350-4 and 350-13 of the town uh code of town of Webster um with the conditions of providing

uh screening

evergreen

evergreen screening plantings along the north property and the east property line uh around where the hens So 1817 and 1856.

Yes.

Correct.

Bam. Okay.

Yep. And then back property line read.

I get lost walking in a circle. [laughter] You did say correct.

Sorry.

1817 being the more important.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Second.

Okay. Does this need a uh should you specify it's for one year? Uh this is for one year. Um I think we do that afterwards but yeah it it is a special use for one year just okay to let the applicant know.

Mr. Short.

Hi.

Mrs. Vololo

I

Mr. Senola.

Hi.

Mrs. Dilio.

Hi.

Mr. Aor.

Hi.

You have your special use permit. It's good for one year. Uh you will have to be back in front of the board uh one year from today to um ultimately request an extension.

Okay. And then do I need to do anything once I get it up and running or

just maintain it?

Just maintain it.

Yeah.

Don't have to I had to call and have somebody come out and check it or anything like that. Okay.

No.

Perfect.

Thank you very much.

Have a wonderful uh evening.

Uh administrative matters approval of May 12th meeting minutes.

Yes. Um I will let me make sure I have the right people. I guess I will make a motion to approve the May 12th of 2026 zoning board of approval minutes.

Second.

All those in favor?

I opposed.

Okay.

All right.

That uh this uh zoning board meeting is adjourned. Thank you everybody.