Zoning Board Meeting

to the zoning board of appeals for the town of Webster today uh January 4 14 2025 um we currently have three items on uh today's agenda um for public uh comment period we're going to limit uh any public comments to five minutes uh a piece I have uh proof of legal publication here for all items um call for attendance Mr short here Mrs Volo here Mr here Mr spado here Mr Santa here Mr here Mrs Cory here Mr DeMarco here all right if we can all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance our pledge of allegiance to the the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands na under God indivisible with liy andice for all uh I have uh Josh artuso who's going

to um wants to talk about some uh adjustments and changes we have uh for our presentations uh moving forward that we're going to be trying uh thank you chairman short uh good evening everyone uh as the chairman mentioned we're introducing a new format to our meetings uh starting tonight um we're going to be uh conducting a PowerPoint presentation in which uh the town staff will present uh portions of the application uh and then the applicant will be responsible for um presenting some additional information specific to their application and then we will uh turn it over to the board for discussion so just bear with us as we're working through this new format for the first time um but uh we will indicate uh when it's your time to speak so with that I will turn it over to Erica so our first Project tonight is for 964 Ridge Road Bill Grace signage um the applicant is Charles P Kelly representing agent Charles P Kelly zoning district is the HC high-intensity commercial District the variance

requests are three single-faced building mounted for facade signs where only one is permitted a total of 380 Square ft of building mounted signage which exceeds 10% of the tenant space facade the maximum allowed is 294 Square ft and one 15t tall Monument sign for the plaza where the maximum height allowed is 6 ft so if the applicant wants to go to the podium um relevant sections to the town uh for this application is 2657 signs permitted in business Commercial and Industrial districts 2657 a planning board shall approve the number of facade signs per building total sign area will not exceed 10% of the square footage and then 2657 C all signs must be constructed in monuments form and or style and not exceed six feet in height so without further Ado sir all right hello everyone my name is uh Jim graay from Bill gra restaurants um director of facilities

for the company uh we're proposing uh the three for we'll start with the monument signed first um the initial proposal was for 15 feet um we went met with the planning board last week um and we brought that down to 10t um from their recommendations and for their approv approval um we're just trying to stay in line with the rest of the some of the other Monument signs that are on and around that area um corner of uh rid and hard there's another one B by the Target Plaza is is also a similar size and the one over on Hard Road by um uh the White Water the actual Plaza entrance for there that goes into de in The BJs um so that's kind of where we are with that one um and then the building itself um we recommended we proposed all three of those um all parts all three parts of those are part of our been part of our brand and we have multiple um examples of that our billg gra and Ontario actually our bill gra and Webster has all those minus the tap room we has all the um world's greatest cheeseburg home world's greatest cheeseburger and the bill Grace signs and we have actually three them on that building as well um and then mult I can site multiple other

businesses in the area that also have three signs on their buildings as well um and some more um we're just looking to we're pretty proud of what we're doing and all that and that plause of redeveloping and we just want to make sure that we're uh the building is um you know the center of that building shows our our the restaurant um and also we kind of we split also we split our for all of our tab rooms we've generally split our restaurant side and our Tap Room side anyway so we always try to designate both of those as separate so that's another reason why we're applying for that okay um with the new process does the board have to read this in is my question when you say read in we usually go through the um the agenda we read in the No No's necessary it's the record now so we're all set okay very good um questions from the board you want to start with the

monument sign is that what he said yes sir and I actually do if you if you want I unfortunately couldn't get it in time until this morning I do have I do have uh the revised copies of the proposed 10 foot sign if if the if the board would like to see them that'd be great yeah up yep perfect thanks thank you you're welcome it does the board have any questions on the monument sign that goes with that yeah okay yeah

I do not this this is actually what I was going to ask the applicant if they could consider yep okay um move on to the uh the building signs does the board have any questions on the building signs themselves I guess I'm wondering on the need for all of them um um I did go to Bill gra and Rite The Tap Room there I also went to the tap room out in Ontario um they both have road signs and the one in arounda quate has significantly Le less signage as far as Allin one place um and even in Ontario the the signage just appeared less I understand the need to have the Tap Room entrance separate from the bill gra restaurant entrance but is there a way to incorporate say like the bill graay on the tower over the restaurant door with world's greatest cheeseburger just to

reduce the number of signs because you're asking for two more than technically are permitted so just curious as to why well again we we the center the center sign the larger one was kind of showing that the overall it's kind of an umbrella of this is you know the two the basically the two we have two different tenant spaces basically because originally we developed the pro the site as you know it's it's there's two towers of it al already so to keep in line with the symmetry of that you know as well we have the one side for the restaurant the one side for the tap room and then obviously the overarching Thing overarching theme of is Bill gra in the center and that's kind of what our our mindset was of that and also that the fact that it's the main tenant for the for the plaza itself um now you know that we own it and that's kind of we the feature tenant of the space um and then again the the one at Ary I understand there's less signage on it it's also it's also a much smaller location I believe that square footage that place is 7,000 square feet um the

new Tap Room the new proposed site here we're building is uh 15,000 square F feet um and it also doesn't Al also does have a tab room as well added on to that one um like CBR is a good example Al of that as well if you go down there's another one in arand the one the the Aranda one on I thought you I talk about the one on uh theic one on Ridge Road oh sebr okay yeah um we also have you know the other thing I mention too is our current location at Webster that doesn't have a tap room has all that stuff I doesn't have the Tap Room sign on it but it has one two three has the three signs on the building on on the south side of the building is is Bill gra and home of the world's great cheeseburger because homeless world greatest chees cheeseburg has been a a like a brand it's part of our is part of our signage for a while now I mean Ontario being one of our oldest locations Webster has also been here forever um we have it our Henrietta location as well and um there's one more I have on here I was looking up earlier this morning yeah seab breze has that as well

on the uh on the um south side of the building as well oh sorry the west side of the building the build gr on uh Hard Road right it's it's only Bill gra on hard on the Hard Road correct yeah but there's but what I'm saying what I'm using that as an example of is the fact that the world's greatest cheeseburger is in is a part of our of our signage for for the years yep yep I got you and again we're using that specific spot to designate the restaurant side and obviously the bill gra Tap Room side is well the bill gra tap room and then Bill gra in the middle signifying everything um now are there more signs that are going to end up going on that Hard Road facade of the only the only signage we would have at the very end would be or when it's all sudden and done would be at the very far end of the

tower the North End Tower whenever that tenant comes in it would be it would be um basically the same thing as the Webster wi Spirits okay we probably do one facing the uh east side of the building along the the plaza face and then probably one facing north um over facing towards you know um the hotel and all that yeah okay yep all right thank you well I kind of agree that um world's greatest cheeseburger is kind of a a namesake for what you guys do and it's been on been on the signs forever mhm but it is not the name of a building and not the name of a business it's an advertisement mhm um that to me could be put in the window rather than up on a 10x10 sign again I just have to yeah I I

understand what you're saying I just want to site that again we've had it it's been on our buildings for forever I I I understand what you're saying sir but I'm just I guess my Counterpoint to that again is what I everything I just said up before if that wasn't there that would get you down within the allowable square footage for signage other comments from the board uh with that I'll open up to public comment if there's anybody wants to speak for or against the uh project please come on up I Char Kelly from CP Kelly I need you to up to the mic and I'm Charlie Kelly from CP Kelly uh we're the general contractor here I think roughly a year ago November um we brought in a 3D sign that showed the same facade with the same signage that was basically approved as long as we Dro that Monument sign down to 10 ft so the signage on that facade is nothing

new and what they're trying to do is really they like to keep family orientated on the bill gray side and The Tap Room more on The Tap Room side so and and home of the world cheeseburger is Bill Grace Mr K when you when you said it it was I'm not clear on the the wordings you say you said it was basically approved what are you referring to there one of one of the um comments was if we would drop that right one of the when was it it was public proceeding was yeah November the November meeting in 23 I believe was when it was was at the time of site plan approval with for the we did we did a 3D rendering sitting across acoss the street that we have a copy of that we had to present here and that that was a planning board approval and I'm sure they said any variances you'll need to go before the ver the zoning board of appeals which is where you are now so while the site plan was approved the sign size and locations were not given any variances it at that meeting well it was pretty clear I I don't know what the meeting minutes actually say um but it

does talk about reducing the pylon sign to 10 foot when all the owners were here and they agreed to do that at that point in time you understand there's a distinction between the functions of the two boards 100% okay we were at both of them when you say zoning and planning I don't recall you being here for any variances for zoning board the site plan didn't okay didn't require any variances so okay you would not have had to come here any other uh any additional comments no I think that's it for now all right I'll bring it back to the uh plan uh to the zoning board any yeah any other uh comments from the zoning board one of the boards one of the boards can I I just what um this is to the staff what's the game plan for memorializing

the PowerPoint in in the record in other words during the course of the presentation this evening the staff went through a number of different pages and I don't know if it went through all the pages are not and obviously one of the benefits of doing electronically is that the town isn't printing up 24 pages times 7 and putting them in our in our uh our files so have we have you flashed through all of those on our respective screens this evening are only choice selections based upon the narrative that was occurring in the proceding the second description you just gave okay so I think we gotta smooth that out somehow okay um I don't how many pages is this presentation the presentation is about 47 Pages because it's an exact one to one with the applicant's application so the application that's submitted to us that is presented to you all on the board is put into this PowerPoint so okay you have seen okay so there's a there's

an affirmation that there's nothing in the PowerPoint that was not provided to the board members through conventional means correct okay with the and staff notes as well the staff notes are an internal and public note for everyone so high-intensity commercial District that's public knowledge previous I'm not questioning whether it's public knowledge but that those notes were also part of that 40 some odd page package that each board member received the PowerPoint was not provided in paper form to I know that the equivalent of the 47 frames was received by the board members yes electronically yes we did receive that and that included the staff staff notes staff notes were included in what we got yes we did receive okay I just want to make sure for the benefit of the applicant and the community that we're not seeing anything that is not reflected in the record yes fa good y thank you

y yep hello hello and good evening my name is Rich Masten I'm vice president of Bill Grace we met with the planning board on three separate occasions two in this format and one in a work study format Josh I'm not sure if you were there or not uh we were in this room in a u u-shape closer discussion and there was three key points that the planning board pointed out to us that we wanted to work together with the town on one was the sidewalk what side of the road it was going to go on and I had suggested to the town that we would be willing to put the sidewalk in on the east side of Hard Road because of the challenges that the contractors would have with putting in the sidewalk with the underground um piping and the flow of the land how it was graded down there were some concerns with the pitch the second concern was the dumpster area on Ridge Road and that we needed to have that

properly secured with concrete walls and um it was to be gated closed and we agreed not to have 18 wheelers delivering um making deliveries or pickups off of Ridge Road so we're installing a brand new loading dock on the far west of the building around the back and that's where the large tractor trailers are going to come in the third concern that we had in the town had was the signage and we agreed to do everything that the town had planning board had asked us to do with the sidewalk the um loading dock the parking as we should and we had asked for here is our presentation for the signage package that we need for this building um to make ourselves known that this is now the Bill Gray's Plaza not The hegedorn's Plaza Bill Gray and Bruce hegadorn both have now since passed Mary hegadorn passed last night um they were Partners back in the 60s

and we made an offer to the hegor Family Partnership Bill Grays to buy the property and we would redevelop it and kind of keep it in the family because a lot of the hegedorn's family members are also owners of the bill Grace getting back to home of the world's greatest Cheeseburger um as Jim mentioned to all of you that is our identity for all those people that come to the town of Webster for all the sporting events and stays in the hotels have no idea what Bill Grace is they truly don't years ago we approached the town and asked for a variance to put home of the world's greatest cheeseburger on the south side of the existing building we have done that at other locations because we're finding the same thing that Rochester is a great Community for all different types of events and people need to know outside of this Market what Bill grav is if you're not from this area and you come to Webster what's a bill Grace I don't know it could be a bookstore it could be anything it doesn't say it's Bill Gray's restaurants it's Bill Gray yes it says Bill graay

tap room but Bill gr's a small print home of the world's greatest cheeseburger was trademarked back in the late 80s early 90s we're proud of that designation because that's who we are we're about cheeseburg kids meals fish dinners and custard that's our product and we encourage the board to please consider our request for the three signs in the building we're we're willing to reduce our Monument sign even though there are others that have larger um with possibly fewer tenants at least fewer tenants on their side we requested 15 we're willing to go down to 10 feet but please give us give us our three signs so we can we can do our best best to repay back what we need to pay back on this project um as Charlie our general contractor every time he puts the shovel in the ground it's a new surprise and a new surprise doesn't come at a cost of $100 it's tens of thousands and we we really are looking to try to bring something great to the community by having Bill Grace I don't know if you've all been in the new liquor store um Sher and John gonz Al's new liquor store Sher hegor it's

beautiful from what they had I think it's six times its size we're going to do the same thing with Bill Grace when you come in it's going to be amazing and then with the next tenant on the end and then whatever we do for Don and Rick Warren below when we redevelop their space please take it under serious consideration we're not asking for a lot this is a simple thing and hopefully you would Grant approval thank you for your time appreciate it have you um have you ever watched shark tank before yes I've watched all the seasons you know they usually like if this was Shark Tank everybody would have a cheeseburger right now before the presentation I may have certificates in my I'm just I'm just kidding I'm just trying to make it a little lighter but when you make me come back next month I will be sure to bring the cheeseburg and the milkshakes and being on a Tuesday night it'll be great placeat thank you again thank you thank you questions comments additional questions or comments from the board I would I don't know if it's possible

um on the town website but not in our packets under the zoning board things there's a picture of the bill graad with all of the signs across the front not just this slice so that it gives us the perspective of the whole building is it impossible to pull up this you might be able to pull up go Earth if they if they can't find it I do have a full I did bring a full because it just I when I looked at this it's like okay it's a lot of signs in a little space looking at all of all of the towers and the entire length of the building the perspective is different where did you say you saw that was it on the town website you said yes under for the stuff that was with the applications okay and I went oh okay and that's not doing but it at least gives me perspective perspective I think you know bces off the two towers

there you go I mean yes thank you thank you I don't have any problem with it not saying Bill gra because it is their brand take this the other obviously that one's that one the colors are different but so the only the only the only additional sign then would be what is listed as food market that is the only additional sign is that correct correct I understand it's not a food market it's TVD but that and it's only going to be on the tower both the North Face and the East face at that at that point in time yep yeah we should only if you're from the from the east side of that building there'll just be Webster wi Spirits the bill grace sign package and then one sign at the very end what is next to on the uh left side of the bill graze sign is there is that just a dimension or is there actually something there left side of Even in our small packet there's like a white white out yeah right there oh I believe that's that that's a dimension that's a dimension okay that's a dimension

[Applause] okay any other comments Chris Ken I'm not sure which file this came from but the record should reflect that we applicant did provide um a complete view of the entire front of the plaza for yeah this should go in the context of signage okay all the is um just for my perspective the wine and spirits sign Dimensions is that are the world's greatest Cheeseburger In The Tap Room the same every single every single one of the square signs you see are all 10 by 10 thank you yep that's what I was trying to get out and it wasn't from that fire do are you open to suggestions of sign size changing take the two signs well the on the sides make them 9 by9 so wouldn't I I feel like that would create um right like at 10x 10 cuz Webster line Spirits is already a 10 foot a 10 x 10 sign they would they would start they would create a you know it wouldn't be uniform across

the across the whole front of the building you'd see all those towers are actually if you go 9 by9 on those signs and shorten the bill grace sign by feet that would bring you down within the allowable square footage for your Frontage and the food Mark could go back up to to 10 x 10 and then you'd have symmetry on both ends with a little smaller in the middle I know from my perspect I don't know what that you know I guess from I'm not seeing what what that ends up gaining I don't know what we are are losing by having uh the three signs there I do know that it is uh you know it it doesn't meet Uh current zoning code uh um I can from my perspective I'm not seeing I see I what I'm seeing is I see four signs one for each tenant if you will tap room and the cheeseburger uh location is your tenant locations and ultimately I understand Bill graay is um it's the restaurant but in this instance it's also the bill graze Plaza essentially if

you will to a certain degree um I I I understand the request I don't know what do we gain out of it losing a foot off of each one of those other than it'll end up conforming to the square footage requirement I don't know if we're really gain much I think if the applicant wanted to avoid getting a variance their design professionals could have proferred that before they even came here tonight so for whatever reason that's the size they want they're asking for the variance if if for whatever reason they weren't to get it they can go ahead as he suggested make them smaller put them up tomorrow right well get their get their permits and put them up right tomorrow if they wanted to so I think I I understand what he's saying and from an ease of of getting it done and quick of getting it done they've always had that opportunity for whatever reason theyve they've chosen to apply for the variant and we should probably vote based on the assigned the size they gave us but just a suggestion no no not jumping on brought up a point yeah that's a good point um we had conversation up

here I guess I I'll ask I'll ask my ask answering his question I guess is I don't know if you already answered his question would you guys consider it oh I me moriz I I that that was when we designed this that was kind of our intent to have this like that I know up like this and I'd like to continue to try to work towards having the having the the the square footage that we we have on the building okay I appreciate it thank you this the bill gra Tap Room in the middle you got your liquor the liquor wine spirits excuse me you have the liquor the whne and spirits on the corner yes sir then you have Bill gra the restaurant and then you have room for The Tap Room no after the tap room after the tap future yeah after the tap we have an additional we have an additional food Mark yeah it that's just something that was put in there just to show but that will also be 10 by 10 correct okay yes that's what I'm getting at yep all right and there'll be one more around the corner around the corner correct okay yep yep okay now if I look at the plaza across the street just as another example um just looking for long stretches of facade

I have a whole lot more signage granted there's a whole lot more attendants but there's a whole lot there's many more signs in the plaza across the street in the same relative length just based on um based on there's more businesses but it it's it's excessive as far as the number of signs as what's permitted per code but based on the number of signs per the length of that building I don't know that it looks out of place it actually kind of balances itself yep no I I agree I think it works well yep all right uh any other questions from the board at this point or comments or no no if we're all set then um like to vote on seeker seeker and finder Seeker yep uh I'd like to make a motion for for type two action under Seeker pursuant to nycrr section 617.980.9025

or I can read them aloud if you'd like um it was pretty much covered by the I just I didn't know if there were any extra the only thing I will say was that the planning board did conditionally approve the monument sign per zoning board meeting tonight at 10t at 10t at 10t yes and we did receive a letter from chairman kashani stating as such and we also received a revised 10 foot Monument as well as uh during the board meeting CH sorry okay um I think uh there would be no undesirable changes to the essential character of uh the neighborhood or the development uh while there are other remedies to based on the building design and the existing signage is there the proposed signage is in in character and uh creates a more coherent and cohesive facade along all uh Road access side of the building um it's not a substantial request uh there are no um detrimental

physical or environmental uh conditions or actions because of this uh request and while is self self-created once again based on the design of the building and the existing signage that's there now I think it is a a good remedy and and works well with the building um anybody else want to add anything uh else because we also have to do the do we have to do the monument sign as well well I think the conditions are similar MH um I don't know if we want to do two separate resolutions one for each sign or if or building signs versus Mone sign how did we have it written up well there should be a separate finding SE for each it does be a separate motion but there should be a finding with respect to okay that was for the building signage that was for the building signage um for the monument signage um it will not create a detriment to the essential character of the neighborhood the other Monument

signs in the area are either at this height or slightly taller um the BJ sign looks to be approximately 10 ft as well um there are signs at the plaza across the street that are less than 10 ft but there's also Plaza signs across the street that are greater than 10 ft so it it's certainly not out of character with the neighborhood um um no other remedy um the applicant originally requested a 15 ft sign height and has agreed to reduce it to 10 ft which is a significantly less impact so they have actually improved upon the request that they have made um there's certainly no environmental or physical impact or conditions to the neighborhood of the district um and while it is self created a monument sign is is permitted and also really is required in order to identify the businesses that are in the plaza um for for just traffic and and direction of traffic flow and I do want to also note that you also agreed to include the address on the sign which is thank you that that just makes not a problem safety just better so and and

it's in an area where I mean there's Monument signs all around and I mean so there there's no no adverse of you know visual impact anywhere else in the area so um all right um with that I'd like to make a motion um to approve uh Bill Gray signage located at 964 Ridge Road um for three single face building mounted uh facade signs where one is permitted um that is a two 10 foot x 10 foot signs located on the tower and one 30t by 6t uh sign located in between uh the two towers and um and one 10ft tall Monument uh Plaza sign um with the uh Building address located on it uh this is a associated with the bill Grace Tap Room uh and Redevelopment um located on a 6.68 acre parcel having 0791 15-1 d1.1 located in a HC high-intensity commercial District under Section 2657

of the code of town of Webster Mr short hi Mrs Vol hi Mr lagner hi Mr span hi Mr s i you have your variance for uh both the monument sign as well as the signs on the uh Plaza itself um you have one year for uh completion uh you have to get all variances uh or all um permits before you can start construction great thank you very much thank you thank you thank you all right um next next up we have the garage removal uh new pole barn located at 580 Bay Road uh applicant Jack uh Burke is requesting area erance to allow a 20 foot uh rear setback where 50 ft is required and to allow the overall size to exceed 2% of the lot size associated with the construction of a new 2100t pole barn on a 1.2 acre parcel having SP 06311 - 1-89 located in an R3 single

family residential district under Section 35012 and section 35-36 of the coded lebster um just would like to add because You' read it all but uh the proposal is to remove a single car garage one and a half if you will and replace it with the 2100 ft pole barn and the pole barn will be attached to the existing chicken Coupe on the property correct all right all right we're working out the details of who goes when and who talks when so we're trying to figure it out because this is my first rodeo okay should I yes you to tell me what to do and thank you Erica and Josh for all of your help in preparing this I'm Susanna Dutro I've lived at 580 Bay Road for 21 years this year um it is the Old laurman Farm Miller farm so a lot of people know it um so I've been the proud Steward of a historic property in Webster it is a registered in Webster only registered historic property so we're looking to uh demolish the existing structure which

was built much much later than the house and the um Stone House which Erica referred to as the chicken Coupe um it did house U chickens pigs and milk at one time um looking to uh build a pole barn where the garage is now that would probably be more in keeping with what is there the garage that was built there does not accommodate vehicles um we've never been able to put our cars in there so often when you drive by my house it looks like I'm having a party and it's just because we're home it's just you know so we also um there is I do have a partially homebased business where we will be acquiring a truck this year and I would like to have a place to park the truck that so that the neighbors are not looking at a truck or looking at a parking lot full of cars which are just my kids and family um so looking to house all of that structure there as well as storage for us so section of ordinance in question is is article 3 District regulations um section

350 12b which is the dimensional regulations um and then 350 12 B5 which is the minimum setbacks um 12 and 350 12 B 5 C which is minimum rear setback of 50 ft additionally section accessory buildings um and then A3 no such building shall be larger than 25% of the square footage of the main building or habitable floor area of the residence upon such lot or 2% of the lot size whichever is larger in no case shall the accessory building exceed 2500 square feet in size so if you want to go through through this is you know talks about the variance requirements so character of the neighborhood the examples you provided us Etc provides you the opportunity to discuss these more in depth with the board I'll go through the slides as you as you go okay so character of the neighborhood we are one of several Farm homes on Bay Road so

we're not really attached to we are attached to but not directly to the homes that are behind us so it's we're in keeping with the farm feel of Webster as you go down Bay Road you can pick out the Farms so those are the ones that were relating to and that it's not out of keeping with that um there are other properties that I believe you show here where they do have U structures that are closer to the property line it's Unique and that it's not a neighborhood so it's in keeping with the farm F of Webster which I have really enjoyed and you can see them you can pick them out as you go down Bay Road as you make that drive down towards the lake um that's what we're looking to do is really clean up the property make it more in keeping with the original structure um and some of these houses have nicer examples of that um yeah in terms of Alternatives it's what we really need is just a bigger structure to accommodate our needs um one of the benefits I feel is that next to the existing structure

there is a garden that came with a house um that is has Stone and it's quite high maintenance so that will and it's I'm sure my neighbors will very much appreciate um us kind of cleaning up that area and having it be a nicer view of what little view they have because you can't see much of it we're looking to completely obscure the view where if you drive down Del Rio which is the side street that runs near um we're planning on planting trees so they will see trees and they will see a clean structure um with you know that looks like it's part of a farmhouse rather than what they see now which is kind of a rundown garage that was built much later and uh a garden that you know we do not care to keep so it will be a better View and then from the road you'll see what looks like part of a farmhouse um so we in terms of size to accommodate our needs it really needs to kind of take up that space what we have now is oddly shaped um and does not work for us may I ask um you mentioned when you were uh earlier on

part of the reason for it was to park your cars because currently you don't have the ability to park your cars in the garage um business but then you indicated a a business vehicle um can you elaborate a little bit more on that aspect and I guess at the end of the day I have a 30X 70 barn on my property it's a big structure yeah it's massive right it's if I had to guess I could probably get probably close to 16 cars in my barn yeah um so a 30 by 70 Barn it's not two cars it's not two cars in a in a vehicle in a you know in a truck right so talk to me is the the reason for something that large I guess is really what I'm trying to we have four drivers I have a work car and a and a personal vehicle icle as well um so that will be an additional vehicle on the property plus you know we have guests regular you know regular people coming by the house so there's it looks like a parking lot so as many vehicles as we can fit um would

be helpful it's also meant for overflow storage um and a creative space for me so it would be it is a decorating business so it would be we do utilize storage in we in U-Haul um so it would be overflow storage but it would also be a workspace that would be you know enjoyed by me so it's meant you know partially for enjoyment as well uh to have a bigger space to accommodate all of that uh my thought process was that you know the next Steward of the property is probably someone that's going to want to have that type of a structure as well so I'm looking for the longevity of the property as well um because I'm thinking of the historic nature of it I'd like to bring at least that piece of it to a point where it could be enjoyed by the next family down the road because for us it you know it it function I'm an old house person but it it just doesn't function you need that space and it's kind of a dead space on the property too it's an oddly shaped area in the property um we'd be bumping into where the garden is and it just makes more sense it just makes more sense can you

talk to and I don't know your business um but as far as I know businesses in R3 I I I don't know if they're try to look at the code what is allowed and what is not allowed it's it's a well it's a it is it's a staging business for uh home sales so it's Decora so it's really just overflow storage so I don't it's the business is not functioning there we function in the field I didn't want to get that confused so it's not a facility for the business um but it it would be helpful to me personally to have a creative space to work on that you and have some overflow because um we just don't have enough storage in General on the property there's no attic MH there's you know it's it's really limited storage wise sure so that is part of the the need so I don't want it to get confused I was hesitant to even bring up the the business piece of it because it isn't a facility for the business but the work truck would come home with me that's part of it and it's one work truck one one and then I have a work um Subaru that I drove today and then I have a personal car and then we have um

three other drivers as well with cars when you say drivers I mean is that three other vehicles or is that vehicles vehicles so what would be parked at the residential property would it all so if I did my math right four five six Vehicles would be parked at the property or there would be trying to count yeah yes so all six Vehicles would be parked there the three drivers you talked about the one work vehicle uh the Subaru which is a work vehicle your personal and the other personal right that that's what I recall you saying right the kids are home if the kids well never know where they're sure that's fair but without the kids it's those six Vehicles is that correct no it's not okay it's with it that's for family and two business vehicles that are personally you know they're not registered as commercial vehicles they're it's a it's a s small SUV used for the the business so it's an extra I have two cars that use you're allowed two cars I'm not yeah that's fine okay like I said I'm trying to understand it again sure it's a big structure okay um I'm trying to

understand the use of the structure and we've had other people come in and ask for a pole barn and as we are having conversations with them it we come to find out what the use is and you know you know it then brings up other questions and concerns um the intent is all of those Vehicles would be so the intent is not all those Vehicles would be parked inside there because when the kids are home my guess is they're coming and going right would be my guess yes usually so inside the the the pole barn would be four four vehicles at kind of at all I'm going to say at all times I I understand different times of the day and work and everything else but on in general for Vehicles will be parked in the pole barn itself um but also looking for that workspace um creative workspace and to you know to have storage because it's an old house basement which I'm sure you're familiar with which is you know a little different than a newer home where you can safely and happily put things in the basement um and no attic and it's an old house with limited closet space so

there's very little storage um of really any kind on the property I got an old house too I locked out cuz I do have a basement I do have an attic yeah we have a basement but there's you know it's an old house basement yeah so those are a little different um the plan that you provided us uh is one large open space two garage doors on one side uh looks like one uh no two man doors uh and a handful of Windows um just going off of typicals roughly 50 ft of that 70 ft would be taken up by Vehicles would you say that that's about accurate plus or minus between 40 and 50 feet I think that's about accurate um so that that ends up leaving you with 20 to 30 by 30 for your own personal um overflow storage Studio overflow storage Etc yeah and home just regular home storage too because that's always been a challenge with the house

um and yeah um I'll be honest when I was looking at this packet and this particular image I was struggling with the offsets and what they were saying um do we can somebody tell me what those say it's really it was really tiny in my packet the offsets meaning uh I think we we were talking about 20 ft off of the is that the north North property line if I remember correctly what is it off the rear property line uh to the building 65.9 65.9 to the existing garage the existing garage the ex existing garage is 65.9 but the the new garage will be 20 ft to the rear property line that's why I interpreted saw the packet yeah the the copy is so small um Can can you let us know what the setbacks are to the rear of the building the proposed building and to the north side setb if I can see it I will let well because we've got small

copy do you have that ER s can help me out with that thank you the rear setback requirement is 50 ft so uh to the north side it's 26.5 ft okay and to the rear it would be the 20 ft no uh 40 40.8 yeah 40.8 40.8 yeah can can iach you and I'll show yeah yeah that'd be great yeah I'm doubling it okay yeah right all right so then um might if I hold on to this until the end thank you so the the intent is the front of the pole barn would be um I think it's roughly where the existing the existing front of the existing garage is which aligns with the front of the existing Stone building um and then it's a 40 40.8 foot off the rear setback uh so that's a 10t a little less

than 10 ft or yeah a little less than 10 ft um variance that you're asking for right and then 26 feet off of the north property line which I believe is uh 15 foot requirement um okay yeah we apologize for the confusion the application indicated a request for 20 ft or 50t and that's fine yes initially so it must have changed or evolved okay I apologize to we that all right no that's in your favor gonna play Devil's Advocate the math doesn't work um if if I look at the current building is roughly 35 ft in depth and I double that my current setback is 65 ft so that leaves me with 25t 25t set back to the rear property line if the building is truly 70 ft deep okay so I I guess what I would ask is um to have the building placed mean if we if we pull forward which was considered yeah it will create because we have a porch and we have a a 200y old

oak tree that we don't really want to mess with the RO structure because it's older than the house um if we pull forward it's going to be tighter with parking because it's a very narrow unless we start cutting trees which we don't want to do because they're old beautiful trees I think what we're trying to do is not make you change the design just make sure that if we have the rear um distance that's what you're going to be tasked with keeping so I mean if you ask for a 20 foot setback it allows you a little more than if you you based on this it's 25 based on the math here right and based on the drawings it's 40 right so yeah right now we have three different dimensions I guess from from my perspective I'd like to see a we have the survey the survey um that I brought here as well you guys have a copy of yeah the the instrument yes okay the label is in instrument location M and as K said the existing garage is just just under 35 so it's 34.3 you'd be doubling that so if you add another 35 ft and the setback is 65 ft you know do the math 35 from

65 30 so we just want to make sure when we if to yeah the intention was to keep the understand the intention we need a a number that right now this application has three different rear setbacks to it do you see what word we saying yeah I I do we have two separate drawings and then we have the application says 20 and the most current survey you have is from 1991 which was the previous owners that was the that was the survey that was the yes cuz I had not had surveyed since um I purchased it so I guess we would default to and I apologize for the confusion um the size of the structure would be coming from the same place as the exactly what you just said so that would be the no it can be confusing when when you're doing it by hand or without a a

license professional so uh I understand that just we want to make sure we get it right so it doesn't impact you further down the road I appreciate that thank you well I mean at the end of the day James Architects it's drafted on here and it's listed as 40.8 um but they don't have the dimension of the pole barn itself on here right so there's um they did get it drafted up and they did get it it's just I was just trying to be polite that's fair um so all right so it ends up being take yeah so that's where the 20 ft is okay so Josh back to you are correct if it is the if it is 70 ft which you guys are saying it is a 70ft pole barn right it's a 20ft variance that's so you were right yeah I think when we met the last time that I think that's what was settled it was it it was all right um so that's good that mean the notice is accurate what I was more concerned about they would like to see that okay um see any we did we kill this issue I think I

I guess any other questions from the board uh since you're using it for storage you have any plans on putting up any type of wall structures to separate your garage from your storage area um workspace area whatever you that's a thought process probably not initially um it's I you know prefer it to be open as much as possible actually you going to heat it at all um possibly part of it but yet to be determined uh how do you when you say possibly part of it if you don't put walls up inside you're eating all of it or none of it right I would like to finish part of it so that it's climate controlled okay um but not necessarily the whole structure I don't need you know so it probably be the back portion okay um no plumbing will be in there correct no sanitary no water no Plumbing needed and no okay so no sanitary and no water will be in there yeah okay electric obviously yes okay yeah other questions just when we make a motion make sure that it's stays questions I did bring samples if you

would like I'm okay with that okay all right just confused and we threw around so many numbers on setback I okay we're at 20t from the rear rear property line is where we are right now okay um not that no uh all right I'm is uh I'll open up to the public anybody want to speak for or against the project no I'll bring it back to the board for any final discussions okay uh I'm going to make a motion for a um type two Seeker under uh pursuant motion for a type two action under Seeker pursuant to nycrr section 617.980.9025 so uh this request is um it's not necess

it's not out of character for um the neighborhood the property is on uh Bay Road uh it is a a fairly large larger Road um the structure that is presented to us is in in the uh Gable barn style um that is being presented and uh is associated with a um older historic house uh farmhouse on the property um so it is not at a at a character for the area and it is also well hidden by um by vegetation U mature vegetation um this will not be a detriment to nearby properties uh again because of the vegetation around the perimeter uh of this property and the mature uh nature of that vegetation as well as still additional 20 ft off the rear property line um this will not be a detriment uh created uh by to nearby properties the benefit is um not achievable by other methods um this is really due to um the need for storage that is not available inside the house um and the current uh the current uh

garage that is not large enough to house the the applicants um vehicles for the for the building or for uh for themselves so they want to be able to house that um other locations on the property would have affected some of the uh old growth or the mature vegetation um request is is not substantial um for all reasons that we just talked about um it is going to be hidden by hidden from from uh view from from nearby neighbors um there is no adverse physical or environmental impacts to the site uh or the neighborhood um the difficulty is self uh created for the need to want to store vehicles but uh it's not unreasonable for this day and age um and uh and the request is is uh not as significant one as there are other uh properties with um p with structures similar types structures on their property anybody else want to add anything no okay I guess I I just want to make sure um we're not having any

water we're not having any sore but you're not ever going to convert this into living space no okay no um and the neighbors around you that are going to be seeing the building are they aware of this like have you talked to them about it so I have not so to there's really only one only you'll only see it from the one side of the property um one of the neighbors really won't see it and they're brand new so I have not even met them and they have not I've never seen them there or been able to catch them uh one of the other neighbors I believe is in a nursing home so same thing um that she's not there but it will be I would think a tremendous Improvement of her view which I'm happy about because she's very Mater ulous with her yard and I think she'll enjoy a better view a much better view um and it really because what she's looking at now is a weedy garden and a dilapidated garage so this is this is going to be neat and clean and you know I would think a much better view for them although I would have liked to have discuss that with them with the holidays and the efficiency of getting on the on the schedule um and I

was out of town so um but I'm hoping they're very happy about it because I think it'll really be you know a nice thing I think that's the one I sore on the property is really that structure it's it brings everything else down and it was like that when I bought it and we tried we tried everything to make it look good and it just it just really needs to be redone so and based on our conversations you are not running a business out of this property or this building correct correct it's it will be for storage for you know overflow and creative space but no it is not a facility for a business yep okay um that I'd like to make a motion um for an area variance to allow a 20 foot rear setback where 50 ft is required for uh for a new pole barn located at 580 Bay Road um and to allow the overall size to exceed 2% of the lot size associated with the construction of a new 2,100 ft² pole barn on uh a 1.2 acre parcel having SPL 06311 d189 located in an R3 single

family residential district under Section 350-12 and section 35-36 of the code of Webster second do we oh sorry do we want to add not to be used yep as not to be used for uh not to be used for um commercial for commercial use um will not be used for um an apartment no water no sanitary uh will be connected to to the uh building as well I think that covers it still second Mr short hi Mr CA hi Mrs W hi Mr lagner hi Mr SP hi you have any variance for uh the pole barn uh you have one year to complete uh you do need to obtain building permits uh and everything else to to get this done so good luck thank you so much I appreciate it everyone thank you

um so the next applicant is for the Brahman Nature Preserve property address is 1775 Ridge Road applicant is Emma Oaks from CTIC costage pardon me engineering um zoning district is large lot single family residential district the request uh the applicant is requesting 2 feet front setb where 25 ft is required proposal is the installation of a 6 tall 7 7t wide double-sided carved high density urethane sign foam sign with eyebolts on the top and bottom of each section thank you Erica hi everyone I'm Emma Oaks I'm a project manager at ctit engineering and I'm here repres presenting the genese land trust um at one of their nature preserves in Webster the Ava and Harland n uh brayman Nature Preserve um it's located at 1775 Ridge Road um over the last few years they've been able to make some um improvements to the site to improve um access for visitors um they've worked with New York State DOT the town planning board um to get a parking lot and driveway apron put in um

and now this year they're looking to install an identification sign um being a nature preserve there are a lot of trees on the property um a lot of trees that my client would like to um maintain um so we're looking for Relief um locating the sign closer to the right of way in order to maintain the existing vegetation on the site but also increase visibility for visitors passers by um emergency vehicles to be able to find the property um properly Identify the property um in case of an emergency or or just to visit so just like to say the section of ordinance in question is uh article I'm sorry section 2654 General regulations and um 2654 I no sign shall be located closer than 25 ft from any right of way so I can walk through the statements of difficulty here um we don't feel that there'll be any adverse impacts to the character of the neighborhood here um we are maintaining the existing vegetation um so there'll be buffers on

both the West and East side of the property um so those neighbors won't really be able to see the sign um when they're on their property um there is a commercial business across the street um that will probably be able to see the sign 6 months out of the year they have some pretty dense um existing deciduous trees that have low canopy um low and wide canopy um and I don't think that they'll be able to see the sign from their business during the spring summer um and early fall months um there is an existing sign at a cemetery Union Hill Cemetery just west down Ridge Road from this property um it's looks like it's a historic sign um but it is um either on the right of way line or very close to the right of way line was probably there before the RightWay was actually there probably yeah I don't know how old that fence is um we've considered a bunch of alternative locations for this sign um a lot of them include tearing down the existing vegetation those big nice mature trees um that of course my client would like to maintain um you know if we were to situate the sign and meet the

setback requirement it would actually put the sign on the south side of the existing parking lot in the woods and you wouldn't be able to see it from the road um we don't feel that this is a substantial request there's no Lighting on the sign um it's uh of natural uh colors it's green and and the sign frame itself will be made of wood um so there's nothing flashy about the sign at all um impacts on the environment we don't feel that there's any in adverse impacts on the environment here um really the only disturbance to the site will be um the post holes dug to install the post for the sign um no significant construction um no adverse impacts to drainage um actually will improve um traffic and circulation um to and from the site um we don't feel that this difficulty was self-created um we're really responding to the existing conditions on the site um as best that we can um by not impacting the vegetation here um by increasing

visibility um to the site um thought yeah I will also add add that we've um coordinated with um New York state do we actually wanted um originally the sign to be as close to the the road as possible for better visibility um and they indicated that that was not possible um to locate within their right of way so to push the sign further south onto our property um we did also add we did sort of play around with you know which side of the driveway apron do we put the sign um and going back to the dot comment um we felt that if we put the sign on the east side of the driveway apron it would um impact the or clutter The View shed um with some of the dot existing signs over on that side of the driveway so we really feel the west side of the driveway is the best spot for this sign questions from the board yes do you have an image of the side I do yes I can give you all images and I have an image of um another Nature Preserve that has one of the signs installed so you can see what it will

look like so of course we have thank you the second is it's a little bit misleading the the the first page has a bunch of different signs on it but it's really only two of those that are being put up those were just the proofs from the sign manufacturer so it's going to look just like this but with the appropriate name yes exactly what's the overall height six feet that's on 250 six feet six feet from grade yep so as I'm looking at the second the Irene uh Goan uh Nature Preserve it be to the top of the four FL would be the six foot 72 yes the top yeah the top of the frame yep okay yep oh I can tell you I I drive by that particular area more frequently than than not and frankly I didn't even realize that there was a nature preserve there um same with the parking area until I drove by it um

there is a grade change though from the road to where you are proposing couple of feet two feet maybe three feet top feet um is that why the six feet yes yeah because of that grade change y okay I did a informal sign survey today driving around town you got too much time on your hands um I really don't the problem um looking at the different town parks that I hike around in just to see what we did because I know the town has its requirements as far as signs that are reming at signs for businesses and offices and whatever but I was trying to see what the town actually did in its own um and I found signs where actually the gazell big wood sign is probably location wise from right away in the edge of the road right about where this sign would be um the vosberg nature trail was a little bit further back the Herman Road sign was back against the back of the parking lot that was very difficult to see unless you knew it was

there and you were looking for IT Park sign is only about 10 ft off the parking lot right right um oh it did it I didn't have that much time today trying to balance babysitting in my other responsibilities it's difficult um what was the other one just lost way traded that was the idea anyway there are signs within the Webster Park system that are look very much like this only the colors are different and location wise um were similar and then once I did find the parking lot which took me a few passes past it to find find it um I tried to figure out the line of sight from where this sign is is it going to be set back from the front of the fence or in line in line with the front with the edge of the pavement yep which is still far enough back that it did not impede my view of the road as I was pulling out which was my bigger concern is not that that's a busy stretch of Ridge Road but I certainly don't want anybody getting clabbered coming out of it um

especially since most people don't even know it's there well yeah where was I going with us anyway that there was there are Town Park signs similarly located is what I was trying to get to with respect to the edge of the road I'm done you sure yes okay any other questions from the board no um not so much a question uh more of a comment putting it on the um the West Side um I understand the reason why especially with the the dot signs there um driving from the West to the east you're still not going to see that sign because of the trees because of the trees yeah um something to considered pruning potentially I think once the signs in and my client sees it they'll probably prune maybe some of those canopies gotcha I was going to uh offer not not so much for this particular sign but you might want to put one at the trail head as well other than because as of right now Tri because as of right now it's it's a parking lot nobody knows what it is uh

putting the sign up I think is a great idea this way it allows people to know what what is there but then having one at the trail head would help that's a great but that's that's for another time so yeah I'll pass that on um any other questions no um I'll open up to the public seeing that there's no public here uh I'll bring it back to the board for final discussion uh I think it it works well like I said I I drove by it twice me too trying to trying to make sure I got the right curb cut so signage will definitely help if they want to encourage more people to use it and obviously it's a amenity that I think people will use it a lot more once they know it's there so and I think the sign the signs work well I mean using the I Gosa on on 250 if that's exactly it it it'll work fine here so with that I'd like to uh make a motion for a type two action under Seeker pursuing to nycrr section 617.980.9025 anybody want to do the findings

sure uh the application as such uh as submitted will not uh present an undesirable change in the character of the uh the neighborhood it's in uh while there are other remedies they would involve clearing trees which make part of the uh the site worth walking and going to so in that respect there weren't any reasonable remedies that would uh that would work um it's not a substantial request as far as the variance goes uh there are no uh adverse effects to the physical or environmental uh existing conditions on site and while it uh it is self-created I believe the uh tradeoff for for putting it where you located it as as opposed to clear cutting three or four trees is more than worth the um the variance uh allowed okay anybody else want to add anything else um I do want to add that it does not block the line of sight pulling in and out of the parking lot so it's not a safety

issue all right anybody else all right uh I'd like to make a motion for for uh the Brahman Nature Preserve sign located uh at 1775 Ridge Road uh for an area variant to allow a twoot setback from the right of way where 25 ft is required um associated with the installation of a 42 sqt double-sided Monument sign on a uh 71 acre parcel having SPL uh number 08 1.01 d231 located in a large lot single family District uh the sign will be no taller than 72 in um and will contain two um hanging uh IH hook hanging uh signs one that uh one that indicates jese land trust and their logo and then the Eva Eva and Harland Brahman Nature Preserve second Mr hi Mr s hi Mrs hi mrag hi Mr I you

have your variance for uh the sign uh one year to complete the project um still need to get a building permit correct Josh for this yes yeah so we still need to get a building permit um good luck and have a good night thank you guys very much thank you um do we have to approve yeah approve minutes we have minutes for the November and December meeting um have everybody here for those I'm just making sure yes no mine is done mine is done um I will make a motion to approve the November 24th 2020 I'm sorry November 19th 2024 minutes second all those in favor I and December something I will make a motion to

approve the December 10th 2024 [Music] minutes second second all those in favor I I all right those are approved all right meeting is adjourned