Town Board Workshop
Mhm.
All right, it is now 6:30. I will call to order the town board workshop of July 2nd, 2026. Up first, we have a presentation / update by Chief of Police Dennis Kohlmeier and Barbara Hollins, our animal control officer, on how we can possibly come into compliance with the regulations for a dog kennel. So, whenever you guys are ready. Awesome. Uh first of all, I'd like to uh thank Barb for joining me for this presentation. Uh the issue that we're going to be discussing when it comes to the animal shelter is an uh ongoing now for several years uh trying to uh navigate uh both being fiscally responsible and uh balancing our operational requirements. Uh we've been in a very tough position lately when it comes to uh finding uh reasonable solutions for the the shelter requirements that we have. Uh I guess I want to highlight that before I get into the presentation of what just the last 24 hours has brought
for us. Um we've had a uh single um kennel that's been stored in our uh equipment bay, essentially. Uh in the first uh the basement first floor of the town hall. Uh we've been using that for up to a 24-hour hold uh for dogs that we have in uh our custody, which is what it's approved for. Uh the current dog that we have has been in there now for 17 days. Um That is uh obviously not in compliance with uh the approved Ag and Markets um uh policy they have for us, but it's uh brought us numerous challenges with the heat. So, uh because of the heat condition that we have, uh it's a non-air-conditioned space. Uh the dog was in distress last night based on the temperature in the room and lack of airflow. Uh so, we had to uh relocate that kennel uh to uh another bay that has more uh access to uh the portion of the building that's air-conditioned. Uh that's created an operational impact for us. That's the path that we have approved for bringing prisoners into the building. Uh so, we're balancing now uh caring for the dog in a in a reasonably safe environment with um the officer safety portions of uh also bringing in
people uh for processing. Uh we're currently doing what we can with fans to blow air-conditioned air into that space to keep the dog comfortable. Um but again, it's one of those situations where we've exhausted all of our resources trying to find other outlets for these animals and uh uh it's a roadblock, so I guess I wanted to frame the conversation uh with what we're dealing with and a thank you to Barb and her team for all the effort they're putting in trying to uh keep these dogs comfortable um while we're trying to find appropriate resolutions, whether that's uh through uh adoption, through fostering, or um returning them to uh their owners, so. Start with that. So, the crux of the issue is um in 2020 uh three or so, 2024, uh the services that we were using for caring for uh sheltered animals uh ceased to exist. Uh they we were using uh veterinary services uh for the um sheltering of the dogs. Um the large uh conglomerate of business owners came in and bought out all the vets in the region, and they stopped providing that service. So, that put all the municipalities uh in a
position where we had to try to find a viable alternate solution. Uh in conjunction with that, uh New York State Ag and Markets, which oversees the uh supervision of the animal control function for towns and municipalities, uh changed their requirements, uh made them uh heightened uh to make sure that the care for the animals uh meets the standards that they're uh setting. So, with the increase in uh requirements, uh they gave a probationary period or essentially a compliance period where municipalities um weren't going to be sanctioned for failing to meet the the new standards. Uh so, effective December of '25, the requirements uh raised the standards, and there's an educational year this year uh that we're uh fast approaching the conclusion of. Uh so, that's what brings us here. This conversation started essentially in January of '24 uh when we started looking at um uh solutions to try to um um solve the sheltering issue. Uh the two options that were uh put forth were a capital project and IMA uh with another municipality. The capital project has gone through several iterations uh from standalone
uh building behind the courthouse uh or building uh in the parking lot of the police department, uh taking up some of the parking space there. Um those were the kind of the two standing options when we made our grant application to New York State, uh which we were awarded $400,000 towards the capital cost with a 10% match. Um it took New York State um uh I'd say almost a year or so to get that grant uh contract to us. Uh during that time frame, uh we were working with uh uh MRB and cost estimates and trying to configure the right uh space based on what we saw as current requirements and needs in the foreseeable future. One of those options that we looked at in 2025 once we realized the the cost of a standalone building and some of the complications that came with it. One being that the town doesn't really own any land that isn't designated as Parkland that has open space currently or at least at the time. So we had an issue that based on grant timeline requirements that we would not be able to go through the proper proper process with New York State
to have the building built on anything designated within that Parkland space. Really that left us only the town hall campus at that time where the the portion of the parking lot around the town hall proper uh didn't have that designation. So it was not ideal but it was where we were going to build if we needed to. Um The timeline with the highway construction wasn't feasible in 2024 but in 2025 it opened up a little bit. There was the option of retrofitting the highway admin building. So we went through the process with MRB of trying to uh estimate the cost of what that would be and come up with some design configurations. We also looked at the possibility of retrofitting our holding cell area because at the same time Monroe County had implemented implemented a centralized arraignment process which reduced our requirements for the holding cells. Um Based on the totality of everything I mean when we're talking about the capital aspect as a matter of which option we were looking at there the cost was in the hundreds of thousands to a million dollar range to have a capital investment. At the time
the board uh decided that the preferred path would be an intermunicipal agreement with uh an adjoining uh municipality. At the time Irondequoit was our our our best option. Town of Penfield, it's not that they they weren't willing. Uh they were in the process of building a new facility uh and their new facility wasn't going to be able to accommodate uh any expansion or uh additional municipalities into that process. Uh so Irondequoit was where we were uh working to try to solidify that agreement. Uh so I'll get to that current status in a second, but to give you an idea of the scope of um the sheltering and the operational requirements we have, uh we have some statistics over the last few years of uh the dogs in number that we've sheltered, the days they've been in our custody, and the fees that were collected um as a result of the operation. Uh 2022 is a partial year. Uh in 2022, uh in the beginning of that year, uh animal control was um situated upstairs under uh code enforcement as a joint um uh position. Uh so I don't have the statistics for that year. Um 2022 it moved back under the police department where we started keeping track. Uh as you can see, the number of dogs um
is uh fluctuates year to year depending on uh what we get um dealt with depends on the hand we get dealt. Uh and the days that they get sheltered all depends on the reason the dog is brought into our custody and whether there's a viable place for it to go. Um we've had dogs uh from single digit days uh like brought into our custody returned in a matter of few hours to spending 30 days with us uh before we can find a viable uh viable outlet. Uh some of the reasons why we bring dogs into custody, uh it's not always um the dog at large, but that's our primarily uh our primary uh reason that we are taking dogs into our uh possession. Once we have a dog in our possession, we have requirements to make sure it's licensed and vaccinated before it's returned to the owner, which adds to the timeline and some of the services that we need to provide. There's obviously other law enforcement reasons why we may have a dog in our possession or have it for a period of time as well. Some of the dispositions over the last few years, redemption means it's basically gone back to the owner. So most of the time we're able to reunite that dog with the the owner at some point, but there's a number of other
things that also happen as a result of it. A lot of times a rescue or lollipop are our last resorts to get them reconnected with somebody. But overall, trying to get them back to the owners is the primary goal. So part of the conversation is what happens in December when we're not in compliance and the Ag and Markets educational period has expired. Uh basically it becomes a civil offense under Ag and Markets law for a municipality not to be in compliance with the shelter requirements. There could be a fine from anywhere from $100 to $1,000 for a violation. Um which potentially could be up to a day, depends on how that is adjudicated, I guess, with uh the Ag and Markets uh enforcement process, I guess, for lack of a better term. The other potential outcome is suspension of the shelter operation. So they could basically create an injunction that we're not allowed to perform shelter operations if we can't be in compliance.
So that's kind of what we're bandwidth saying against. Uh so, the current situation is that we have a single kennel um that is authorized for 24-hour uh sheltering. It's not uh approved for beyond that. Uh private entities, we looked at veterinary services, they stopped providing it, and we're unable unable to locate one that uh is willing. Uh dog daycares, uh our primary roadblock with them is uh dangerous dogs and unvaccinated dogs. Most of the dogs we bring into our custody, uh we don't know their status. Uh so, they are um hesitant to introduce them into uh their animal populations that they're getting paid paid to care for. So, uh we have not been successful in a long-term uh solution with a private entity. When it comes to municipalities, uh Wayne County, uh our neighbor to the east, uh they use the shared service in Lyons uh for all of their county. Uh so, that's not an option for us to to go out there. Uh Irondequoit, who we initially thought was going to be um uh on board with an IMA, had a change in leadership uh and they are no longer uh interested in pursuing an IMA with us. Um that is uh uh uh pretty much out of uh uh lack of space. So, uh every time that
we've had uh overflow, we've uh tried to find these other municipalities to try to help us take the the animals, and as Barb can attest to, um it's roadblock after roadblock because of uh limited space or unavailability. So, really the other municipalities that have their own shelters currently don't have uh space or expansion capability to fit any kind of uh long-term agreement with us. So, that puts us back in the conversation of uh the IMA was a preferred route because of uh capital costs, but we have no willing partners, and we're back in the boat of we have a non-compliance situation that um at this point points to a capital solution.
All right.
I'll open the floor at that.
Thank you very much, Chief. I know two of us were here last year for this, three were not. Um but I'm going to start down here with Councilman Wagner. You've raised some very good points in the past, so I'd like you to
Well, I think we all agree this is just a really difficult situation. Like it's not great that the dog's been there that long with not a great place. And it really stinks that we have no good option here. Like we're stuck with these stray dogs and animals left alone that we're trying to find a home for and not spend more than we can afford. Um So like with that, what do other municipalities do? Like you know, like all the neighboring towns, what do they do? Are they building their own? Are they doing outsourcing? Is it a Is it a mix? What do What do our peers do?
Uh primarily build their own. So Greece, Irondequoit, Brighton, Penfield all built their own. There are some shared services on the west side of the county. Chili, Hamlin, they're doing some shared services on that side. But operationally it's not feasible for us to transport dogs back and forth to the other side of the county.
Why is it not feasible?
feasible? I'm sorry to interrupt.
No, go ahead.
What's that? How is it not feasible to transport an animal? Explain the specifics of that.
Uh so we have a very limited part-time staff and to have them uh spend their time driving to the other side of the county dogs uh I just don't see it as a feasible operational model. I don't think that we're going to be able to maintain the staffing of uh part-time employees that spend their time doing that.
So how many part-time employees do you have right now?
So we have two primary animal control officers that work part-time. That's Barb and Tracy. They two uh the majority of the work and the administrative uh, functions that go along with the animal control process. Uh, and then we have I think we're at four right now. Three uh, part-timers that do on-call services for us cuz obviously it has to be a 24/7 operation. Um, that we have to um, care for those dogs that are in our possession as well. So, they come in three times a day to make sure that the dogs uh, fed and uh, walked and met with uh, the requirements. So,
So, you you said you have three
on the agreement we would potentially have to have them drive to that facility three times a day to to care for those animals.
Did you just say you have three on-call people?
Correct.
Three positions.
Three positions. They're not on They're not all on-call at the same time. They They cover nights and weekends. So, it's a staff of five total.
Okay.
I'm sorry, you're Go ahead.
No, it's all right. And then like just I apologize for this. Just trying to understand the full flow. So, if we if we take the dog elsewhere to be sheltered, we've got to then go there to take care of the dog?
It depends on the agreement. They'll both both have been discussed on depending on the municipality.
Okay, that's just what I wanted to understand when you kind of said they'd have to drive there. Um, so it just depends on what it is.
Well, we don't have other municipalities.
I know, but it's just theoretically I just want to like
Theoretically
I just want to understand though like if that was a contingent thing where if you shelter them elsewhere, you had to then still come and take
Would the city have to provide the staffing? Yeah, that's another problem with other municipalities right now is they also don't have the staffing.
Okay.
I was going to transfer the dog that we have now on Monday out to Hamlin and just had them call me today and say he doesn't have the staff next week. So, he can't have the staff that he is not going to pay to come in and take care of a dog that is not from his municipality.
And is that Would that could be like negotiated in like the IMA with them that we would just then pay them to take care of the dog when they're there. Cuz it seems like someone's got to pay for it. It might be cheaper. Once again, these are not great options, but would it just be cheaper for us to just say, "Hey Hamlin, we'll pay you 60 bucks a day for sheltering and care of a person versus we'll pay you 30 bucks for a sheltering and then you're going to have to drive to Hamlin three times a day." Like it's all these solutions are going to cost us money and time and we're trying to find the the best of all of them. None of them are great.
No.
curious.
I we've asked every municipality and we've not gotten an answer from a municipality that says, "Yes, we will take your dogs and we will charge you for the services provided."
Okay.
Um that's where we were going with Irondequoit. Uh it didn't work. Uh we've had the conversation with Hamlin. Uh so far we think that we might be able to get them to agree uh as part of a short-term plan because if we establish a capital uh plan to build a facility, obviously we're not going to have it done by December 15th and we're going to be out of compliance. So, there's some conversation about potentially that being the short-term IMA that keeps us in compliance beyond uh the deadline date while we have a long-term solution being constructed. Um but so far they haven't uh uh been willing to sign a long-term open-ended IMA to care for our our services.
So helpful.
a dog out there, too, there's the understanding if they need that kennel space, we have to come back and take our dog back so that they can use the space. So, it's not even really
Yeah, so they're really just giving us like bad terms on rental, essentially.
to help us out with a bad situation.
Yeah, but they're just also like they're not going the whole way of like we'll make this work for all sides.
Well, they can't.
Yeah, which is hard. I mean, a lot of these shelters, for-profit and nonprofit, there's too many dogs and cats and not enough places to go. Like, you know, I hear that from different shelters I've worked over the years. Like, it's a perpetual problem because it's very expensive to house dogs cats. And no one wants to pay for it. Um you mentioned that like if we're non-compliant what then happens if we're non-compliant? And you mentioned like we'd stop sheltering. But if we don't have a shelter, I'm just curious like
So, that's from the eggs and markets uh regulation of animal control for violations. Uh it says it uh should be a civil civil offense of not less than 100 and not more than 1,000 for each violation imposed by the commissioner. Uh we were being told by our representative from eggs and markets that that's per day.
Okay.
Uh and then it just says the other uh potential um punishment that can or action that can be taken is the uh suspension of the animal shelter operations. So, again, the terminology is uh inclusive of uh like uh not-for-profits and fosters as well that fall under their purview. So, they would be able to take away their ability to house dogs. Obviously, we have a legal requirement where we have to have an animal control and animal control function. Uh so
where it gets a little like nebulous for a gray area. If you can't house a dog, then what do you want us to do now? Like we've got a dog.
And that's what it's come down to. And that that's the position we've been in now for uh the last uh 2 and 1/2 years.
Yeah.
Uh almost 3 years.
Um So, do you have a list of like what other like a running list of the different municipalities, shelters, vets that you've talked to to try and like Is this the ones we've talked to so far? And we've got to like continue to like as one of the options like continue knocking on doors and seeing who we could possibly partner with?
So, um Barb is probably the the uh best connected um professional in the animal uh care business that I know uh in upstate New York. Uh she's the point of contact for um eggs and markets to do their annual uh training that they do here. She puts on the conference every year for them. Uh she's been beating down door after door after door trying to find a viable solutions. Um We don't have one.
Yeah. No, just like everyone's just saying no Barb then to us at this point.
Um I've been in veterinary medicine for 40 years and I've called in tried to call in just about every favor that I have had [snorts] and they're all used up. It's just not it's because this national problem that we're having with surpluses of animals and dogs at this time. They warned us this was coming 4 years ago, 3 years ago. Part of the reason why Ag Markets went to higher standards. Um We're just squeezed everywhere in veterinary medicine also. There's not enough of us vets. There's not enough technicians. Staff is burning out. We have the highest suicide rate out of all professions. Everybody's giving what they can give. Uh veterinary hospitals cannot help municipalities with their dog boarding problems. Um Sometimes we have emergencies with the dogs that come in with us. They're starved within hours of death. We get in because some of the people that are working in the emergency hospital used to be my students. So there aren't appointments. There aren't placements. The fosters, the rescues are
full. Called five rescues for this dog. Just got a letter email this morning from Lollipop saying they have no space. Um I just got a text today from Deb New Day U Rescue said I have 15 people on a waiting list owner surrenders. I was going to ask you if you could take one of six labs. Woman's losing her house.
Yeah.
So this is not something that's going to go away. It's just going to get worse. So, to answer your question that you asked the chief, what happens if a resident of Webster calls and says, "I have a contained dog in my yard." I can't go get it. So, the community will have to [laughter] start housing the dogs and trying to find them if I'm fine. Cuz they shut us down. That's it.
Yeah. Well, as we said, there's there's no good solution here cuz it seems like the building is not cheap either. I think it's a real cost to the town.
that is a cost, but it is an investment. Um, you know, there's other stuff that you can do with a shelter for a community. I mean, we always talk about community outreach here. Right now, there are community members that are calling us and asking if we have dog food or if I can help them find dog food. And, you know, some of them are from Phillips Village, which is where we've taken three starved dogs that were supposedly stray there. So, I'm trying to work with Lollipop and trying to find a way to get food up, but if we had a shelter, we have the ability to do food programs, to help with vaccination clinics, to do more than we can with a 24-hour holding in a sally bay.
Yeah.
So, there's a lot more opportunities that come with having our own shelter. And so, even though it is an investment to help us with problem that's not going to go away. There's other ways to make it more cost efficient and for the community members. I don't think the community knows just how bad this is till they call me and I say I can't help them.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I guess going to the cost, um, we've been away made aware that there's a another Exa Markets grant opening towards the end of the year for uh shelter construction. We don't know the dollar amounts that are going to be allocated for that. That's a October time frame, we believe. It hasn't been announced yet. Uh there's a current grant from ASPCA uh that's open currently this uh for the I think it'll close the end of this month end of July uh for up to 75,000 on um equipment uh and cages and other things associated like that that fall within that purview. Um I understand the capital cost. Uh I wasn't an advocate for spending capital dollars when we had an IMA available to us.
Yeah.
We're the point out I don't have an IMA available. So, we can want one, we can hope there was one, but I don't have one. Um so, that's why we're here.
Well, I think literally you're going to rock and hard place. Go ahead.
I I just want to address the cost issue, okay? Because we had a specific um I looked into this and and Keith was involved last year. Um when we were given a cost of nearly a million dollars for to build a kennel, we just didn't feel that was appropriate at the time. Um and I had heard of a municipality on the west side that had just completed a dog kennel very similar to the size we needed. Um and and they did including soft costs for almost half of what we were quoted by our engineering firm. And at that time I suggested it to a couple people that could have made a decision to go in a different direction. And we I was basically told to stay in my lane. Um if it's going to save the Webster taxpayers almost a half a million dollars, that's who I'm looking out for, right? But that's not the direction we went.
So, we asked the engineering firm to kind of condense it a little bit and give us another price. And we were submitted a sketch. By It was done by hand. Not even a ruler was used. And the cost came down a little bit. So, myself and um and Keith at that time, you were the project manager at that time, right, Keith?
Correct.
Yeah, we we went to Irondequoit. We had a great conversation with the chief of police, the animal control person, and um one of the board members. And we we discussed working together, applying for a grant together, cuz at that time they had discussed expanding into the garage area. I think that's if I recall that correct. Um and adding kennels and improving their existing. And so, that is the direction we were going. And it seemed like Irondequoit was on board. And then all of a sudden they have a change in leadership. And I don't know that you you're currently the the project manager, correct?
As much of a project there is, yes.
Well, there's got to be a project manager. It was Keith, and I believe now it's you, correct?
Uh yeah. Yes.
Okay. Have you had any direct conversations with the chief of police in Irondequoit regarding this?
Yes, sir.
Cuz I I don't I don't know what happened. What what what what broke down?
you said, a change in leadership and then uh change So, I mean let me address a couple of things you said. Um our initial uh scope of the work for a stand-alone building was approximately uh 1,300 square feet. Right. Um we have a MRB drawing that uh provided that as an initial um recommended floor plan. Uh we did go back to them and say that if we were going to locate the building at the town hall campus, we could cut down the like uh remove the bathroom, some of the other things that were in it and overall it didn't really change the price dramatically. When we went to our third option of a of a we went down to a 900 square foot uh stand alone facility. Again, we're still close to that million dollar estimate. And I guess I'm not a project manager from a engineering point of view uh but that is their estimate not the result of an RFP where we got construction comes back and say that's that's their
projected cost. Um so I would say our our attempts to limit the capital project uh got it down to a bare bones uh operational requirements moving forward. With Irondequoit uh we offered uh our grant services to help try to do a joint capital project. Uh they went they went ahead on their own did their own grant funding. They uh expanded into that area area that you referenced uh to do a uh isolation area. Um we had a we we do still have a good working relationship with town of Irondequoit. They've helped us with a couple of dogs um over in their facility for an extended period of time. Uh um but they've run out of space. Uh the spaces that they had allocated that they've maximized to the best of their ability uh that we had a dog over there on a Friday afternoon they called said you need to come get your dog back. Uh we're out of space. So um we've attempted to have discussions about joint capital projects moving forward. We've discussed uh having some sort of IMA to get in compliance and the answer we keep getting back from their town supervisor and their the office is that they're not interested at this time. So
It's just a shame that it seems to me that um you know this this this issue became political with Irondequoit.
I don't think it was political.
That's my interpretation based upon what the chief has said regarding a change in leadership and they went from wanting to work with us to not working with us.
I don't think it was political, John. I've spoken with John Perticone multiple times. It was we were looking for moving forward. He was on board. He was on board until the warm weather hit and he saw it he in his words is he saw how bad it got and how full they were at that point. He explained that unfortunately they back up to the city which means that they receive a massive increase in dogs and when we were working on it with him, he unfortunately like they were just they were over capacity at the point. I do not think
So they're not even interested in working on a joint grant to expand even further into that garage is what you're telling me.
I believe I is apparently not at this point.
Have you had direct conversations with him with respect to doing a joint grant
No, not on the grant. Not on the grant. Just on the IMA thing. I can reach out to him this week or well, next week now that we're in the holiday week.
Well, I mean I think it is unfortunate with Irondequoit, you know, this year it seemed like they were on board with it, not on board with it, not and then at one point all the way up to May 1st, we got a breakdown of cost per day was $60 to $90 per day. And like it seemed like it was going to move forward. And then May 6th, they just completely withdrew. So in five days they went from well, here are terms to like
Right.
Wow.
think instead I I I I get the concern there, but instead of beating the dead horse, Irondequoit's out for whatever reason. The frustrating part is this is an unfunded mandate that is being placed upon the town and the cost was going to be a million dollars at one point. There was also 1.4 million dollars. So maybe it was a million dollars net of the $400,000 grant. Now we're six months or a year ahead. Now it's probably going to be 1.5 million dollars cuz nothing gets less expensive. So the concern is you know is the cost. We have so many other capital projects that we have bonded for and need to pay for, and I don't know what the cost is per dog. Like if you look at a $1 million or $1.5 million dog kennel for 20 dogs a year over 20 years, it's like $2,500 a dog. It's It It just It just doesn't seem like rational to spend a million dollars or a million and a half dollars on stray dogs. So, I I appreciate the the
questions like there has to be another way. What is the county doing? What is the county willing to do? Um I don't know. Henrietta Henrietta just built a a large facility. Is Henrietta an option? I I just there has to be another option that is less than $2,500 a dog. It's almost cheaper to pay the fines.
Well, and that's that's the the truthful hard part here of like it's sad what's happening to the animals. We can all agree to that. But then we've got other projects in the town. We just did the salt barn and Vosburg. We talked about possibly doing Shipbuilders and other things. So, the town has other major capital projects which impact residents. And like Shipbuilders Creek, like if that goes, there'll be like flooding of sewage in people's yards. So, that's a problem. Not to say sheltering the dogs and Barb, to your point on like what we could do for the community isn't important. But it's the hard balancing act of like we've got a lot of capital projects and we've got to balance these.
And that's why I And that's why I brought up the point with respect to North Chili. Because if you look at what the square footage of what North Chili did and what our square footage is going to be, it's pretty comparable, all right? And And they did it for 530 or 40 thousand dollars. That included soft costs. Yet we were given an estimate of almost a million dollars. So, my point to bringing that up is you give it to one engineering firm, you're not doing yourself any favors. But to your point, I understand where you're coming from with respect to cost.
So, Alice
to be a a better way.
Alice, could you ask the other town supervisors in Monroe County, "Hey, what have they done? What did it cost? And you know, how many dogs are they sheltering?" Cuz we can kind of see, okay, Penfield spent a million bucks and they shelter eight dogs. Irondequoit spent 1.5 and they shelter shelter 10. You know, Fairport spent 750,000, they shelter four. So, we can just get some framework of like, what are other people doing? How much are they spending?
out to them. And Barb, would you be willing to get me in touch with their animal control people, too? And we'll get this just the statistics just to share with the board of how everything's going.
Um just uh something to a couple of those points. If you do look at our numbers, when I did animal control with Tom Link years ago, we had maybe six, eight a year. Maybe one that we had to place somewhere. Most of the dogs came in, we got them right back to their owners. If you look at our numbers, we're at 17 already. And it's July. And what we forget is everyone says per year, per year. We're busy at the same time, all animal control officers, from Most people hate rainy springs, I love them because that means the number of animals I get in in April and May is going to be low. But we're all busy from April to September, maybe if we have a nice October, we'll go into then. Most of us aren't as busy through the winter years for obvious reasons, except now we're getting a lot of more dumped animals than we ever used to get. So, to ask another municipality, "Well, you only have this or you only have that."
Their number of 30 dogs, you have to remember, is between April and September. Same with us. We have seven had 17 dogs so far. Our total last year, I believe, Chief, was 22.
Also, so part of that, I meant like if they built a kennel, how many dogs like how many like
Well, Greece just built their kennel
like it's not bays. What do you
Their kennels.
Okay, kennels. Like how many What's the capacity? Like I more meant like the kennel capacity. Like is it six, eight, 10?
Right.
Greece is brand new. Everybody saw their opening last year.
Yeah.
Brian just had to put out um a thing on their Facebook saying they're doing no cost adoptions because they're full and they have no room.
Okay.
And he's a brand new facility.
Yeah.
Henrietta, we talk about same same. So, when you ask me to ask people, I'm going to be honest here, Chief. I'm sorry. This is the answer I get. Tell Webster to start taking care of their own problems.
Okay. Yeah, we're just trying to understand We're just trying to understand
that the problem
place. Like there's not Monroe County isn't going to help us. There's not a shelter that they're going to do for all municipalities. Lollipop tried to get that to happen like five, six years ago. There wasn't any buy-in into it at all. So, the county's not going to be there.
we just want to make the best decision we can and know what
understand that.
I'm more asking from a cost standpoint of they've got six kennels and it cost them a million bucks and they've got 12 and it cost them two. Just so we can know
them is around every when when we started looking into it, most of people told me that it was going to be anywhere from 800,000 to 1.2 million dollars to build a dog shelter.
Okay. And then Barb, you you raise a great point. You know, it's kind of like health care like once you get to the doctor, the problem's already there. And you talk about doing other services. Is there something that we can do proactively to help curtail this? Is there a community outreach or something else we can do ahead of time to help reduce the number of stray dogs and dogs we've got to house?
Well, they actually expect a population problem, which is nationwide.
Okay.
And that's spaying and neutering, which goes to the problem that there aren't enough veterinarians. Lollipop just had to close down there spay neuter facility to the rescues.
Okay.
So, one of the rescues that I was reaching out to today said, "Is she spayed?" And I said, "I don't know. I don't have a way to figure it out." And she goes, "We can't take any animals that aren't spayed because we can't adopt them out until they're spayed or neutered.
Okay. So, just a a crazy thinking out loud question like, could we offer to provide free spay and neutering to pets in Webster to help reduce this? Is that
You could offer it. It's just that you probably won't find a veterinarian that would be able to do it for you. Only because Lollipop is down a veterinarian.
Okay.
The city shelter's down a veterinarian. The veterinarian that's working at Lollipop right now is working part-time. Um I actually gone back into the city shelter to help them do surgeries in there so that they could get animals out. And I retired a year ago. Um it's There's so many problems that come into this that that I would love there to be a very simple solution for all this. I really would, but
It's hard, yeah.
It's hard cuz there's not. And when you think you finally found a viable solution, and then they're like, "We're sorry." So, ironically, it really is a spatial issue. They did do their They got uh grant money to get more kennels in. They put them all in, and they're all full.
Okay. Well, no, I understand the problem. I I know a gentleman, Stu, and and Victor at the cat shelter there. You know, he wanted to retired 6 years ago. Every time I talk to him, he's still like, "I'm still going in to spay and neuter cats because like we have no alternative." And they've expanded their cat shelter.
And it's pretty national at this point. They're looking to do in veterinary medicine something that is like more of a nurse practitioner type of thing for us at our nursing levels. Um so that we can be certified to do some of the smaller things in veterinary medicine and the same as like human medicine had to switch to. But you know, that's 10 years down the road, but
It's hard.
It there's a lot of things a lot of different things that come into this. We are not going to have a shortage of dogs that I know for sure. I know for sure that the condition of the dogs that we're going to be getting just seeing what everybody else is getting and what we have received over the years is going to be worse. Um I'm currently working on a contract with the emergency hospital so that we always have the ability to get our animals in there when we get them here. The number of dumped dogs locally for Monroe County has gone up a lot. People can't afford groceries or gas
Yeah.
or homes. So they exhaust all the rescues like this woman that Deb just reached out to me today said, "I'm losing my house. I'm going to have to let my dogs go and leave the area."
Yeah, I mean I mean essentially it doesn't really matter if we cut the number in half through long-term strategy, we still have the problem that beyond 24 hours we don't have a place to put the dog.
a place for them.
Right, and that was why it's like a little ancillary of like help a little bit, but we still have the underlying piece.
And I think it's it's reasonable to discuss this because I I would say we all are in agreement that this law puts us in a really tough position. That's very much kind of unfair. Um but we can't control that. We can't relitigate the past either. So we're kind of at a point where I think it's absolutely reasonable and we're all on board with exploring any and all options to avoid a capital project. But I do think we have to be prepared as a group being to look more at the violation potential. Like I'm looking at 2024, $184,000. For $1,000 a day, we'd house them for 184 days. That's a huge expense on an annual basis for the town. So, I just want us to be prepared if we get to a position where we have explored any and all options and gosh, we should. That we also at some points like Bossert, some of these other projects, we do have to have capital projects to make sure that we stay in compliance and take our towns as we're supposed to by law.
Correct. Yeah, it's a hard one.
I guess my my closing comments are this. Uh We've approached the Monroe County Supervisors Association when Supervisor Flaherty was the supervisor to see if somebody else uh had a interest in a shared service to try to to get something going. We tried to approach the Supervisors Association about lobbying Monroe County to create a centralized uh service that uh all municipalities could use. Didn't go anywhere. We've tried with private entities and uh we've hit roadblocks with all the private entities that we've tried to uh offer services to. We've tried with every municipality and we've run into roadblocks with every municipality. So, whether we feel more comfortable about the price per dog they pay or uh we're upset about the price per dog that we have to pay, we're going to be in a position where we have nowhere to take the dogs and it's taxing on our staff to try to jump through hoops every night trying to find out whether there's another alternative or favor they can call in to get the dogs. So, I understand the capital impact of it. I'm not saying that we have to have a million-dollar capital project, but I'm saying that at some point we have to draw a line in the sand and say that we we need to get in compliance uh and there's only one guaranteed way to do that and that is to build something.
Well, and I I I don't I don't disagree with what you're saying. If we get to that point, but one thing if we get to that point that we should never do again as far as I'm concerned, is to only use one engineering firm and give the work to them. That needs to walk to multiple engineering firms and get multiple different bids because when you see a shelter that was put up for 525 or 100 540,000 dollars versus an estimate that was based off a sketch, a hand sketch, not even a ruler, of 900,000 dollars, that's a problem.
Yeah, I I'm not sure which drawings that you may or may not have gotten. I have I have three different
I have three different drawings at the different sizes that are professional architectural drawings.
The one I the one I was
But I guess the only thing I would say on top of the the Tri-Lakes 500,000 dollars is that they had to go to a second project because the compliance or the regulations changed and they were out of compliance. So, their their initial 500,000 was for the pre-compliance change construction.
Yeah, they were going to convert one room into a holding
They were going to have to do some other other work as well.
I'm sure it wasn't that much. It wasn't 400,000.
All I'm All I'm saying is that it's that's pre-statute change. And with Penfield, their initial plan with their facility was pre-statute change. They had to then re- redo their design in order to be in compliance once their building was finished. So
was the grant that Irondequoit just received to upgrade and come into compliance and expand?
I They didn't share that with me. I don't know if you you would know that.
ask a question?
We can, but we are 15 minutes over for this one. This is not the last discussion we'll have on the dog kennel. So, I do we do need to move on though as we do have two other workshop presentations.
So, we just have So, what's the next before we just move on? What's the next step and and who's going to be taking those next steps as we
I I will reach out to the other supervisors to see what costs were. I agree with John that if this is to be built, we need a full RFP and everything going there.
just Can you do me a favor and ask a favor and just email them so we have something that we can read and make that happen? Thank you.
Chief and Barb, what else do you need from us then as we kind of we try and navigate through this together, this difficult situation. What do you need from us?
Uh line in the sand.
Okay.
Like how long are we kicking the can for?
All right. Uh up next we have a discussion by the town engineer
Before before we move, just um for a short-term solution, should we not continue to um approach Hamlin or Henrietta for a short-term solution for an IMA for holding some of these animals?
Uh so we have a request in to Hamlin right now to see what uh
[cough]
they're willing [clears throat] to do. So.
Okay.
How about Victor?
And Henrietta, Victor, I'm trying to look at other communities that were not on here.
They're all at capacity, sir.
Okay.
I I I've called just to try to put this dog somewhere and I have been told no everywhere.
Okay. All right. Well, thank you guys. Um up next town engineer Keith Mortimer on a proposed request for disability signage.
Uh Supervisor Sheldon, um I would propose that we uh table this in absence of the the next discussion. This is really more informational presentation. It's not
Uh are there any objections from the board on that?
No.
No? Okay, then up next will be a presentation by Maria Deuer uh on the Monroe County Climate Action Fund Pilot Program Grant Application.
We don't need to Kyle, do we need to make a motion to reschedule this?
No, we don't.
Okay.
Thanks. Wanted to ask.
Make sure.
Two questions.
Okay.
So far so good.
Hi everyone. I'm here this evening to present the Monroe County Community Climate Action Fund Pilot Program Grant Opportunity. The purpose of this grant is to provide Monroe County municipalities funding for greenhouse gas emission reduction projects. There are six categories and they are transportation, building and housing, energy use and consumption, land and water resources, partnerships, education and economy, and sustainable materials management. Some quick facts about this grant. The total funding available for this program is $200,000. The maximum award is $10,000 for single program. If we partnered with someone, we could go up to 15,000. The grant team consists of town staff, members of conservation board, and Color Webster Green. The grant application is due July 8th. Um with that, I want to address that this grant doesn't follow our preferred planning and presentation schedule. The reason being is that after first learning of this program, the due date didn't align with any of our upcoming board meetings and required too quick of
a turnaround between announcement and application. So, we decided to pass. However, to our surprise, the application deadline was extended. This is why I'm here today on short notice and with a tight decision uh time timeline. With that being explained, I'll continue. This grant has a minimum match of 50%. However, there's an opportunity to gain extra points on our application if we over match. If approved to apply, I would ask for the board's permission to over match to get the extra points um as outlined in the graphic. The project selected is to replace town owned maintained grassy areas in the right of way with low no mow native plantings. This project was selected as residents have called into town to express their dissatisfaction with the aesthetics of these areas. Unfortunately, the highway department is only able to mow these areas twice per year for safety due to budget and available manpower. So, when this opportunity arose, it felt timely. The benefits of this project are many, but three I'd like to highlight are
budget savings of $2,000 per year through fuel and the staff staff time savings. Environmental benefits of reduction in carbon emissions for for mowing and supportive the local ecosystem. And also aesthetic appeal. The areas identified for this project will have a little burst of color while also maintaining invisibility due to the low height of the plantings. The seven areas listed on the slide have been suggested by Pat Stevens, Highway Superintendent, as the areas to start. This totals roughly 3.4 acres. In preparation this project, we reached out to Color Webster Green to ask for their assistance in identifying appropriate plantings for this project. Some low-growing natives suggested are, and I'm using their common names, um little blue stem, wild petunia, plantain pussytoes, dwarf cinquefoil, and three-toothed cinquefoil. Color Webster Green have been extremely helpful in uh gathering this information for us in a short period of time. And I look forward to working with them if we're permitted to apply for the grant and are awarded.
So, the next steps are um the town board will need to vote yes for the resolution to authorize submission of the Monroe County Community Climate Action Program Pilot Grant Application during the town board meeting following this workshop. The town board will need to determine the grant match. And once determined and approved, we can finalize the application and submit by the July 8th deadline. Any questions?
Thank you, Maria. Um have you Well, clearly you've worked with Pat on this. I appreciate that.
Mhm. And I would much rather see these flowers in there in those dividing areas than than the grass. And I understand Pat doesn't want to have to, you know, My question is what is the estimated cost overall that you were provided from Pat to prepare it because you're just not going to throw seeds down and it's going to work. Someone's going to have to dig it up, put some soil down, do the planting, do the watering.
With the initial estimates that we received from um Pat, that was just for his um his team's time and effort. It was going to be about um it's about $3,900. Um for 2 days worth of work.
Okay. And you can cover all seven areas. Um
We should be able to and then we're also we're still in the because of the the extremely tight timeline that I had ex- described, we're I'm coming to you with a a formulated plan but not all the details yet. I don't have the budget ready to submit with the application yet. We're still working on pricing out the plantings. Um I planned on also reaching out to uh Friends of Webster Trails to talk to them about maybe some volunteer days to help with the plantings. Um There still needs to be a bit more of a formulated work plan. Which will be ready when I submit the grant.
And I presume we're purchasing plants and not planting seeds. We're planting full plants which are not inexpensive.
No. Um So, if I look at this, the grant is $10,000. Is it $10,000 for the whole thing or $10,000 for each of the seven areas?
The entire project, we would get $10,000 grant and then we'd have our 50% requirement of a local match. Unless the board decides to go higher than that.
Do you have a recommended match?
Um I would recommend going to the um 75%. So the 25% over. Um that would get us Oh. Sorry, I don't want to guess. We did the um 75, it would get us uh two extra points on our application. If we matched at um 100%, which would be a 50% overmatch, that would get us three extra points. So I would suggest somewhere between that range. We also um Councilman Wright, we also don't have to do all seven areas. Those are just seven areas that Pat had identified as good start.
Yeah.
Um so us pricing out the planning and making sure that we're within whatever our budget is is we have to follow that budget.
Okay.
We don't know what the budget is.
cost would be a
No, I don't know what the budget is until it's determined what the match is. And if we don't get the grant, then we can't do the project anyway. So
All right, I'm just a little confused here. We won't know what the budget is until the grant.
We set the budget right now.
Don't we Don't we put the budget together what it's going to cost and then we know
I put the budget together with the help of the group that is identified to create the the task team, if you will.
Okay.
Um we price things out. Everyone has a job of um getting certain things priced out and we bring it all together uh calculating the labor materials, that has to go into our budget application. It's part of the application to show in budget line items. Like, we have to stick to that. So, it all has to be
right?
I don't have the number today because we just decided to do this last Wednesday.
And there's a little bit of contention on on what match were if we are approving, which is going to generate the budget. So, we match it 75% meaning we are we would then approve 7,500 to be used towards this project.
Correct. Because I have to include that into our budget, the match.
So, is is the default match 10 though cuz it's a $10,000 grant or is the default match 5,000 and then
5,000. Yeah.
So, we're looking at what? Maybe 15,000 on the low end to 20?
Mhm.
Is that kind of a the the
No, we we create we drive that.
Somewhere in the
are created off of what we're allotting. So, we're not going to drive a budget that's any If we say 7,500, they're not going to create a budget over the 17, five. That
to be accounted for and it has to stick to the budget that is agreed upon. I have to include the resolution in our application showing that the town board has agreed.
Got you. So, you So, you then All right. You're not going to We're not going to spend over that
No.
specific amount no matter what.
No.
Okay. I just I just like the numbers ahead of time. That's all.
Yeah. I mean, once the application is ready, I can share with you the um the the budget that we're submitting to the state.
My only concern is you is say the cost is very high or it's cost prohibitive and we get to the point where we're saying, well, you know what? That's a little bit too much more than we have an appetite to to spend and then you have to give the grant back. So, it never looks good when you give a grant back and I I don't know if it's $10,000 then the match is $5,000 saves $2,000 a year. I I don't You know, there's still going to be a maintenance cost for some of those plants to keep them alive. So, I I don't know. I just I just don't know the math I that the math works.
understanding, for the first year the plants do take a little extra TLC. Once they're established, they're natives. They create their own ecosystem and they adapt to the soil. They get watered when it rains. So, after that first year it's not um anything that's going to cut into the budget or take time away from staff watering plants.
And then you said we learned about this way you said like what last week?
Last week we found out about the extension.
Um did we consider other uses of this money besides the plants or was the plants always our top thing or just
Because I also work with code enforcement, um I receive a lot of the phone calls from uh residents with uh their questions, their um uh
concerns?
Thank you.
[laughter]
Uh and also their areas of dissatisfaction. And the one that is quite frequently at this time of year is the um mowing. They um some residents have taken it upon themselves to mow these easement areas um to keep it long length uh lawn length. Um but Pat's team, they can only mow it for safety reasons. So, for visibility if it gets above 12 in, that's when they'll mow it, but they can't go out every 2 weeks and mow. So, those residents are not satisfied with the view that they're seeing. So, that's why when this opportunity came up and that was one of the projects that would um satisfy the grant and also satisfy the residents, we all agreed that that was a a good pilot program.
And what neighborhood was that or which one on the list was that?
Um of where they're complaining?
Yeah.
Um I would have to look in the log and I don't have that information on me.
Was there a a number two project that we were considering? I'm just curious.
Um no. We No one else came up. We didn't come up with a different idea.
Okay.
Mhm.
I know this is just hard cuz this is just very like rushed and last minute and
Yeah.
we're all kind of uh learning this as of today. Kind of fly. Um in reference to I'm sorry. Go ahead. I think it's like the fifth time I've done it to you tonight.
[laughter]
I apologize. Um to Jennifer's point with respect to um and and your input too regarding the significance of keeping these things watered during the first year cuz I totally agree with you. I have flowers that come up in my my my yard every year, same place, whatever.
Mhm.
But you emphasize the importance of watering. Have you had a discussion with Pat as to how they're going to be watered so they don't die in the first year?
Um we have not had that discussion yet.
Okay.
It's part of the work plan that we would be ironing out before we submitted the grant application.
But I don't even know if he has the equipment to to do that. So.
And then like a a plant question as a mother that's an avid gardener and things grow, are these going to grow out of control and we need to like help keep them above like is 12 inches a problem for plants as well if these plants get above
Um not these plants are selected for the height that they grow.
Okay, so they're all
So their max height is below what we need to keep it at.
Okay, and then that's
Mhm.
That's always a good thing.
Yeah.
All right. Well, we will be discussing this again later on when we decide if and when we pursue it and local match. So have time to think of questions during then. Um with that, I will close the town board workshop. Um it is a little past 7:30, so everybody take 5 minutes and we will begin back here at 7:40 for the