Minutes

WEBSTER ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES

Jamie Newtown, Chairman Donald Hauza

Barry Barone, Vice Chairman Griff Stappenbeck

Corrine Volo, Secretary

Christopher Centola

Michael Short

John DeMarco, Attorney (VIA PHONE)

Josh Artuso, Director of Community Development

Katherine Kolich, Recording Secretary

2023. This evening we have two tabled items; one schedule matter and two administrative

matters to address and we do have a full board this evening. Welcome to our two new members

that are stepping in for our other members who are out this evening.

Call Roll

Webster Herald.

Pledge of Allegiance

Summary of Application Outcomes

TABLED MATTERS

:

1045 RIDGE ROAD/TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE

PLAN REVIEW

375 WEBSTER ROAD/RED BARN FARMS

Pg. 115 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

SCHEDULED MATTERS

:

1021 FIVE MILE LINE ROAD/G & H AUTO SALES

PLAN REVIEW

ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS:

HOT DOG EXPRESS FOOD CART/CHARLES E. SEXTON PARK

TOWN CLERK

(Corrine Volo read the first application)

TAKE 3 OIL CHANGE: Located at 1045 Ridge Road. Applicant Quattro Development is

requesting a USE VARIANCE to allow the construction of a 1,610 SF oil change facility on a

1.25-acre parcel having SBL# 079. 15-1-8.009 located in an MC Medium Intensity Commercial

District under Section 350-18 of the Code of the Town of Webster.

Appearing before the board was Betsy Brugg. Good evening and nice to see you. Good evening,

Mr. Chairman, and the members of the board. It is a pleasure to be here tonight on this application.

You have before you for a proposed TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE at 1045 Ridge Road. The proposal

requires a use variance with that application package and hopefully you had a chance to review it.

The site is this remaining 1.25 acres (SHOWING ON THE PLANS) right here, Ridge Road,

Brusters Ice Cream, and this area here, it’s a little dated but the Self-Storage is back here. This is

the last remaining piece. There is not a whole of interest, there hasn’t been a lot of interest in

developing this or any uses permitted by code. Brian McKinnon is here tonight. He has been

working with this property and representing this property, what 15 years, something like that. On

behalf of the property owner. Evan Gaffel is our Engineer and Mike Haigh from Quattro

Development that is developing the TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE in our area and is here tonight as

well.

So, as I said, it is 1.25 acres. It is the last remaining piece in a fully developed area. It is a mixed-

use area and I think you guys know if very well, it is literally just a little bit across the street here.

So, you know it’s kind of mixed zoning in this area and the property is zoned MC _ but we several

zoning districts surrounding it as well and a mixture of different types of uses and development.

We have a bank here; we have self-storage; we have some apartments; we’ ve got large retail across

the street, and we have a number of related auto uses that have popped up along Ridge Road and

we have some offices; and a funeral home. There is just a mélange of different local kinds of

places along the corridor. It is not the heart of the commercial area but it’s really not far from the

center however, there is no traffic single here and when Christa came in to get the development

approvals for the self-storage there was a condition put on that approval by the Planning Board

Pg. 116 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

seeking to have access management on Ridge Road and not allowing a driveway directly onto

Ridge Road for this parcel. So, the parcel is kind of, you seen the application, so it is limited in

size, and we have limited frontage. There is really no room for growth. The area around tt is

developed, it’s very small. The TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE is an ideal type of use because it is a very

low traffic generator. Not a low generator but a super low generator, They expect, if they are

successful here, 30-40 cars is typical for an oil change, so it is a very low traffic use. They can

work with this shared access with Brusters and Brusters is present here tonight and they came out

to the Planning Board. We presented a concept plan to the Planning Board a couple months ago

and they came out to support that application and the Planning Board did issue a favorable letter of

recommendation, which you probably have in your packet and had a chance to see. I think we are

making some cosmetic changes and addressing some things that the Planning Board brought up

before we go back there but we cannot proceed with this process unless we secure a use variance to

allow the use. So, the application before you addresses all of the standards and criteria and the big

one being the financial hardship and as you know we have to demonstrate that the property cannot

generate a reasonable return for the uses permitted by the code. You are familiar with the MC

District list of permitted uses, and they are primarily retail and office uses . The property has been

on the market for quite a few years and there has been literally no interest in this parcel. It is a

remaining piece of the regular shaped parcel. So, the self-storage really couldn't use it. They went

back in the larger 5 acre here and it connected right over here (GGSHOWING ON THE PLANS), and

it was just a small frontage piece. As far as the use variance criteria, we have provided you with

some information in addressing the financial hardship. Brian did submit a letter and we submitted

not only the marketing efforts on this piece for the last two or three years, but we gave you some of

the information that you saw previously because the financial hardship of the larger piece has

always been an issue, they just didn’t have a user at the time for this piece, but they had it on the

market. They have had it on the market without any limit as to the use /potential use of the

property. They haven’t had any price on it, so they haven’t priced it out of the market. It has just

been out there and available for anybody interested in building anything on the site. I think you are

probably aware that construction cost are high and there is lots of vacant space so the type of uses

that are interested in building a new store on a relatively small parcel not on a corner, not on a

traffic signal, without a driveway, not in a commercial heart of the town Is really limited.

So. The only use that has expressed an interest and actually come to contract is for the

development of the TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE which is why we are here tonight.

As far as the other hardship, documentation has been provided to you with some dollars and cents

proof. The property owner has been paying taxes and insurance and carrying cost related to the

property, so we have given you those numbers in the application. Ok, the uniqueness of the

property and again, I think we went into the fact that it doesn’t have a traffic signal, it has speciaily

a condition prohibiting a driveway so all of those kinds of physical aspects of the property, those

characteristics are unique to the property and those are essentially the limiting factors that create

the financial hardship. Obviously if this was a larger parcel, something different or at a traffic

signal it would be a completely different matter, but we have limited size, limited frontage, no

driveway, not a central location. We may be across from some large-scale retail where you kind of

have an interesting co-tenant mix along the corridor a little hodge podge there.

Pg. 17 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

So, this seems to kind of be the perfect fit. The character of the neighborhood are we going to aller

the essential character of the neighborhood, the use will not and probably the most significant

benefit of this use to the corridor is that it is a low traffic use . A daytime operation, they operate

basically like office hours or retail hours. The hours that I think we laid out in the application for

you, these are the typical hours, and they could be adjusted depending upon local demand and

management, 7 am to 8 pm, Monday thru Friday; 7 am- 7 pm Saturday; 9 am — 5 pm on Sunday

and like I said, they could be modified. They don’t do heavy repairs, they don’t paint cars, they

provide very limited services. Oil changes; tire pressure checks; topping off some fluids; changes

air and cabin filter replacement and wiper blade replacements. They describe themselves as kind

of an upscale operation in that there is not a waiting room. The customer just drives in, stays in

their car and they get their service, and they move on. This is a small building. It is 1600 SF

approximately with three bays. The orientation of the building is deliberate. We kind of want to

create most attractive and least impactful view of the building so we put the shorter side of the

building at the side of the street, and we did at the request of the Planning Board kind of spruce it

up and we are working on landscaping and architecture and that kind of stuff that the Planning

Board will focus on all those details. So, we want to make this look as attractive as possible and we

want it to blend in. As far as the use, the intensity is as low intensity you could find. So, that

should not alter the character of the neighborhood in any way. We are going to design this, it’s a

brick building and it’s not a standard building. They have already upgraded to a brick building to

fit with the character of the neighborhood, like some of the other recent development. They

wanted to have a real quality building here that has been included and again, will continue to the

Planning Board should we secure the use variance from this board. Whether the alleged hardship

is self-created, again it arises from the actual physical characteristics of the property; the location

of the property; a limited size and kind of a limited interest in a property that just doesn’t have

those characteristics that companies are looking for when they want to invest in building a new

building. It’s expensive to build a new building so. When these companies come in looking for a

site, it has to have all the requirements. The traffic light, the corner location and all those kinds of

things that they look for.

That is our application in a nutshell. As I said, there is a letter of recommendation from the

Planning Board and the applicant has also submitted to County Planning and they also sent back

their response/referral and there were no comments or issues of concern. I understand that the

PRC has not issued any comments, but we will look at this again in connection with the Planning

Board application. We had quite a bit of material that I submitted in support of the hardship, but I

don’t know if you have any questions about it. 1 am going to stop there and kind of see where the

board might want to go.

time. In terms of the size, could you compare it to the Valvoline or Meineke which I believe is

over 2-3 parcels? How do you compare? Is there a representative from TAKE 5 here? Is there

anyone familiar with the operations of the building that could step up and answer some questions?

any questions I can.

Pg. 118 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

some of the competitors in the areca. There is a new one on the corner of Jackson and Holt, | am

sorry, Jackson and Ridge Road. There is Valvoline down in what we would call west Webster on

Empire and then there is a Meineke which I believe is in the Goodwill Plaza area. I think that is

Meineke if ] am not mistaken.

Everyone speaking at the same time.

project in Pennsylvania and that we did was around 4000 SF. In regard to Valvoline, they are

similar size buildings, but Valvoline offers significantly more services. TAKE 5 OIL CHANGE

really wants to be a 5-10 minute, stay in your car, limited service. So, there is no transmission. So,

in regard to nuisance for neighbors and stuff like that, it is minimal as possible, and they run a very

clean operation. The building size is similar to a Jiffy Lube or Valvoline. [ do believe Valvoline is

around 2000 SF so 400 SF less than a Valvoline. The prototype, I am not exactly sure.

take 1.3acres of this? Isn’t it a total of 7.1? There is a map that shows the full...

remainder of that this is what was developed for the Self-Storage.

know it was connected to that, it should have been two separate parcels because it was barely

connected.

somebody dive a little bit deeper into the marketing that has been done. When was this originally

listed, what were some of the interests that came to the table or did not come to the table, how long

has it been listed.

years. | am from the original construction of the Webster Green Apartments in the rear and all the

way through to today. It has been extensively marketed. The site signage, broker letters,

networking, word of mouth, it is a unique piece of property as you well know. As the chairman

mentioned, it was part of seven acres originally and as Betsy mentioned, it was theoretically two

parcels even though they were one tax parcel so. We were before the board a couple of years ago

for the Self-Storage facility for a similar reason. We had no frontage, and it was kind of this piece

Pg. 119 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

was sort of connected but it really didn’t do anything for it so, we own the Self-Storage so from the

marketing perspective we had virtually no interest in that because it was landlocked in the back so

our group owns it, and we have a contract with Life-Storage as the management company so that

was how we self-marketed if you will. You know what I mean? We created our own demand by

creating self-storage because there was demand in the area. It is actually, just for what it’s worth,

the board was involved in that project a couple of years ago. We are at pace right now where we

anticipated after a full year, and we are only six months into it since we got our C of O in October,

sO it was a great decision. Clearly the community has embraced the location. We have continued

to market his and until Mike’s group came along, we have the perfect use we don’t need anything

that Betsy said that the property doesn’t have. We were hoping someone could come along and

has interest in it quite frankly.

can’t find it readily. 45,000 in real estate taxes; 12,007 in liability; 21,500 in, I guess that is Christa

internal marketing in trying to move this site. Kind of shoe leather effort. Correct?

Brian McKinnon; Yes, it has been subdivided from the 7-acre parcel so going back we have been

caring the 7 acres until recently, for many, many years. Paying the taxes and the liability

insurance; marketing; overhead; a lot of expense.

some of the uses if you have it in the code book.

350-18 MC Medium-Intensity Commercial District.

[Added 6-17-1993 [1]

The intent in creating this district is to provide a choice of business locations for

commercial uses furnishing a wide range of goods and services to individuals and other

businesses. Such establishments should be scaled to meet Town-wide needs. Such uses

are located primarily in single-purpose buildings or small shopping plazas. Medium

intensity uses should be allowed only on parcels with adequate size to provide

landscaped open space, parking and building setbacks. Conversion of residential

buildings to medium-intensity commercial use should not be allowed on undersized lots.

The Town intends to encourage owners of small parcels to work together to provide

shared access and adequate parking and landscaping. If a landowner cannot combine

parcels or work with adjacent property owners to provide landscaped open space and

shared parking and access, such lots will be considered for a limited range of low-intensity

commercial uses. The following shail apply in the MC District:

Pg. 120 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

A.

Permitted uses shall include and be illustrated as follows:

[Amended 12-21-1996 by L.L. No. 8-1996; 5-7-2004 byL.L. No. 1-2004; 5-19-

2011 by L.L. No. 2-2011; 3-3-2016 by L.L. No. 1-2016; 8-15-2019 by L.L. No. 2-2019]

(i)

All those permitted in LC-I| Neighborhood Commercial and LC-I| Low-Intensity

Commercial Districts.

(2)

Appliance sales.

(3)

ar, tavern, and cocktail lounge.

(4)

hitd and elder care facility.

(5)

ommercial print shop.

(6)

ommercial recreational facility.

(7)

SOROCOBOROR FES

(8)

Drugstore.

(9)

mployment agency.

(10)

loor coverings.

(11)

Funeral home.

(12)

Furniture sales.

(13)

Grocery store.

(14)

ndoor amusement center.

(15)

awn and garden supply store.

(16)

Medical and dental clinic.

mM

= o

-

onvenience store, without gasoline sales.

Pg, 121 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

E

Medical and dental laboratory.

E

Office machine sales and service.

E

rinting and publishing establishment.

2

Restaurant.

2i

Storage facility-interior access/climate-controlled: defined as a facility that is designed for

internal access to storage space by the various renters or lessees who individually have

personal access to the secure section of the facility so leased for the purpose of storing

and removing personal items from the interior access storage space.

(22)

Variety store.

(23)

Communications towers.

83

E

and then typically one employee per bay.

allowed uses that Mr, Artuso just mentioned.

we would rather see a fast-food restaurant. Fast food has hundreds of cars a day whereas the

Valvoline only had 20-30 cars a day, 40 maybe.

were saying we don’t want the traffic and this operation even had less traffic then a fast-food

restaurant Which is allowed in that zone. So, the traffic was a none issue.

Pg. 122 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

small building with a very small parking need. You know, if you talk about a fast-food restaurant

and talking about drive-through lanes and tremendous amount of parking, it’s completely different

and they all want a traffic signal.

So, what they are telling us is in fact the truth.

doors be down when the air tools are in use?

may be a compressor for tire pressure for inflating tires but other than that, the doors should be

shut during operation.

anything?

is all these other oil changes within the area 1 am assuming that market research has been done in

that the area can support it and it will be a business for long term. You mentioned that there are

vacant buildings out there, so 1 am assuming you guys are going to be there long term.

necessarily consider them apples to apples as competitors. Yes, a lot of companies offer oil

changes but TAKE 5 feels that they differentiate themselves because it is the only one and I can

only speak for myself, I really don’t like going into those weird little waiting rooms when you can

just stay in your car and listen to a podcast so that is kind of how they view themselves as the next

generation oil change that will entice a lot of customers.

you have the 75-foot setback and that is all based on the MC, are those fixed, and I know that is

per our code but looking at an arial it looks a lot further closer to the road than ESL, I am trying to

think what bank that is adjacent to it and Brusters.

significant topographic issues with the site. There is a hill that 1s there and the further south that

you move you can run into some INAUDIBLE with the layout and stormwater management.

Pg. 123 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

the building back and I’m sure they would have been more forward. The other thing we were

looking at and we did meet with Brusters, we were kind of looking at line of sights. The bank has

some significant landscape and trees along Ridge. I modeled the site; we have renderings showing

the trees from the intersection and basically there is no view until you get past the existing trees

there. You get past the trees there and then your line of site doesn’t hit our building and it hits

Brusters which is also modeled. So, that with being further set back; offsetting the entrance that we

don’t create a lined-up entrance which then creates a four way stop which then kind of confuses

everyone I would feel in this situation. Brusters can operate with the vehicle circulation as is and

the customers with the low intense use can turn left into TAKE 5 and right out.

there are people on bicycles, there are people everywhere. ] mean, having a low intensity and

sharing a driveway is an extra plus because of the neighbor.

variance. You are nol going to come back for a sign package?

EVERYONE TALKING AT THE SAME TIME.

application. | would certainly welcome Brusters if they are willing to come up and speak from

their perspective as they will be the immediate neighbor.

staring at a dirt hill for how many years and as they said, it is not going to be high traffic and it is

more daytime that they are going to have people going in and out. It’s nighttime that we are

insane over there. You have all been there, I can see it. It would be nice to see an actual building

and not an empty lot. We welcome the neighbors.

Storage; they park up and down Ridge Road. I suspect the customers will go over there. I hope

you won’t kick them out. They will not go during the day. Please, they park on the driveway and

jump over the fence because they can’t walk from the parking lot and I doubt we will hear their

compressors because ours are so loud, we will never be able to hear them, Seriously, we would

welcome them.

Pg. 124 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

speak for or against this application? Seeing no one, we are going to return the discussion back to

the board and close public comment.

RESOLUTION 23-033 Jamie Newtown made a motion for UNLISTED ACTION

which was seconded by: Barry Barone.

VOTE:

Mr. Newtown AYE

Mr. Barone AYE

Mrs. Volo AYE

Mr. Centola AYE

Mr. Short AYE

financial hardship. This piece would cut away from the larger piece as a result to other improved

and approved developments from the larger piece was this kind of a left-over piece. Am I

understanding that or am I wrong in that regard?

of Brusters. The storage units are built to the south and southwest of Brusters. It was kind of

what I would call a hanging parcel for a lack of better word.

hardship, that is one and the same. In other words, the seller is the same owner of the larger

piece, and this piece is kind of left over is selling to Quattro, do I have that right?

application/presentation from Woods, I am a little bit confused because it sounds ambiguous.

When they talk about their efforts over the last three years, which is the second paragraph on

page 3, and then in the next paragraph they are talking about the remaining parcel on quote that

has been on the market for the past several years. I am assuming in one case, they are talking

about the larger piece and then in the latter instance they are talking about the piece that is

actually before the board now, is that accurate?

for this piece because that was relevant to the application, however, this is not one parcel that

Pg. 125 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

connected. We did put in the marketing efforts on the larger piece because that small piece has

been marketed individually but previous to that, it was marketed as part of a whole and there was

still no interest in that piece.

our record is clear, and so the board can actually vote on the facts that actually exist. The latter

piece that Quattro Is applying for the oil change business, what were the marketing efforts on

that piece and over what period of time?

on the property until we had out contract with Quattro. An outreach of just our network of brokers

and real estate leasing agents that we deal with through our development business, which is a lot of

commercial retail office properties in the portfolio, word of mouth. Typically for what it’s worth,

as you probably know, along Ridge, site selectors go by signage. They go with demographics;

traffic count; DOT and the signage on the property is really what drives people to location. That

was something that we had on the property right up until Quattro put it under contract.

include the conventiona! multiple listing or loop net or something that would relate to commercial

properties.

loop net , they didn’t have any success so that is when we did the Life Storage facility and did it for

ourselves which created this parcel. Christa Developments website

Not the overall parcel but just where in the Woods Oviatt letter, it says, the remaining parcel has

remained on the parcel for the past several years, does that mean......1 guess I don’t know what

that means. On the market for several years as it relates to the parcel.

of Webster and subdivision approval of this seven acres that allowed us to develop the Self-

Storage facility so from that moment on, we now have the ability to market this parcel by itself.

carrying cost of 80,000 dollars is set forth over a three years period. So, should that really be a

two-year period of carrying cost.

Pg. 126 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

accounting department. Could there have been an overlap of six months, I don’t know. It’s tens

of thousands of dollars that we carried the property.

months, and it sounds like the applicant is closer to 24 months.

November 2"', 2020, is this specific...is this about the cutoff date?

tail end of 2020.

months; two years and six months. I mean, in terms of these estimates that were provided, I was

merely looking at them as estimates.

what the facts are. In order to prove an unnecessary hardship, the applicant must demonstrate, to

our board that each and every permitted use under the zoning regulations for that district, where

the property is located, is one that the applicant cannot INAUDIABLE reasonable return

provided that the lack of return is substantial and demonstrated by financial evidence. That is

why I want to be clear that the presentation isn’t ambiguous and that the board can lock into the

facts whether two years is enough or not enough or whether 50-60 thousand dollars is enough or

not enough that the board can rely on what is pertinent to that particular property, Two, that the

hardship relating to the property is question is unique and does not apply financial portion of the

neighborhood or the district. Threc, that the use will not alter the essential character and I think

that is pretty clear that it wouldn’t. Four, that the alleged hardship has not been self-created and

so with respect to making sure that you are clear on the financial evidence that you have it and

that this larger piece that has been sold off and developed and approved for development, and

this remaining piece and | don’t know if it’s an odd ball piece or a piece that was left over

Pg. 127 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

because the other ones were easy to market but that doesn’t contribute to the self-creation of the

hardship.

have tried to market the entire 7-acre parcel so for how long? 14 years?

parcel, am I correct. They elected as Christa to develop the self-storage themselves because they

were getling no market interest. Am ] misrepresenting that. So, they elected because they had no

market traction to construct the self-storage then constructing the self-storage on what we will

call, hanging parcel, I am assuming didn’t make sense to you to have storage wrap around , it

would be useless. You wouldn’t have any storage in there.

year period and not just the two-year period, you have now segregated that because you have the

storage units and now you have marketed that specific to itself but in essence, this has been

marketed for ten years. Am I correct. So, I guess I am not following John what....

flushed out, that there is a distinction between the entire piece the hanging piece that is left and

whether or not the proof of the larger piece kind of floats into this application and gains the

advantages of the marketing difficulties that the larger piece had and that the board is

distinctive between the two because the letter kind of smooths it all together. I

just wanted the fact to be delineated _ for the segregated piece of the marketing

and financial hardship relates to the greater piece.

criteria 1s.

parcel for the allowed uses . It is not specific to this hanging piece east of the Brusters.

included the last three years and demonstrated that they have been paying taxes, insurance and

cost and explain that the issues are with the parcel. The reason that I gave you the larger

background is it really just shows how far back the hardship. That hardship is still included this

portion of the property and what is unique about this, this isn’t a square that was divided so that

they could build self-storage. The self-storage required a use variance. ] am going to guess that

this board probably preferred a self-storage not be on the frontage of Ridge Road. Right! Even

though they are connected. If you look at what the original parcel was, they really are like two

Pg. 128 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

separate parcels just kind of tied together. So, that is why I gave you....I gave you extra hardship

evidence that maybe | didn’t need, and ] didn’t mean to confuse you, but I really just wanted to

show you that if someone wanted to put a Taco Bell on this frontage, they could have done this 7

years ago, 6 years, it has been on the market. I can tell you that other brokers have talked to me

and said that they looked at different sites and picked other locations that I have probably been in

front of this board or at least the Planning Board on for different national retailers and this site

has been passed over. So, that is why you kind of have more information then maybe you

needed. [ didn’t mean to confuse anybody.

It certainly can’t handle the traffic and the parking and then some of them, a funeral home, there

is a funeral home two doors down. Some of these specific retail uses are very specialized and |

think everybody knows, it’s kind of known, that it is tough to find retail now with all the online

kind of competition for sales and what not so. If you have any questions about any particular

use, I am happy to speak to it and I don’t think it would be different to go through but and I think

a lot of it is actually common sense.

letter; word of mouth; what bubbled to the surface as a result of that? Just specifically those

reach outs. What bubbled to the surface? Let’s say it is two and half years.

use variance, after use variance. There just doesn’t seem to be the interest that we like to see.

Wouldn’t it be great if everyone was clamoring to buy frontage on Ridge Road, but we are not

seeing that.

think, if ] could just say one thing relative on our relationship with Brusters, I mean, we are

neighbors and we own Life Storage and we have worked hand in hand with them to create an

access through the existing driveway that didn’t hinder their operation and you probably know

that the 50 feet frontage that we have on the Ridge , where our monument sign is for Life

Storage, think about how much that exacerbated our issue for the last ten years in it of itself .

We only have 50 feet of frontage, and we have this massive driving range in back so there has

been a real history and I would just like to say one thing, if ] could. 1 was there when we

developed Webster Green Apartments so for all of you who have been here forever, I think we

have come a long way. We have a beautiful apartment community that is done well. We have

sold land to Quanta ford who built an affordable senior community in the back, and we were able

to pul a nice storage facility in there that is proven to be in great demand from the town and we

Pg. 129 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

have a great neighbor in Brusters, and we know have another opportunity here with Quattro, so

we are seeing it as a combination of almost 15 years of redeveloping a very large and awkward

piece of property in the town.

parcel there, is that owned by...

person’s name, If Josh wants to, he can but that was sold to a party that was going to doa

medical building there and we had nothing to do with it. They wanted to buy some land from us,

we made a transaction and that has to be... maybe 6,7-8 years ago, it’s been a very long time.

We have nothing to do with it. It is there parcel . We did however, when we did the self-storage

facility and we provided a new driveway to the back, we have given them the ability to tie into

our driveway for access so not for me to say on what the town does but if the town wants to do

some traffic management there in the future, should that parcel ever get developed, we also

accommodated that with the town by granting an easement over our driveway to allow access to

that property that we no longer own and haven’t for years.

applicant cannot generate a reasonable return for permitted uses. Any further questions,

comments, or thoughts from that perspective?

and they need to act on it because like he said, I don’t think there is a Jot of uses, retail or

otherwise, that can make do with no frontage access along Ridge Road and based on the size of

the parcel, that would make it economic feasible, so I] think whatever stars aligned they found the

absolute right client for this parcel.

dated March 22, 2023 and not regurgitate knowing that there probably is some flex in the

numbers that you provided based on that window of when this parcel clearly was a singular

parcel, understood? Are we in agreement? With respect to the alleged hardship relating to the

property is unique and does not apply to the substantial portion of district or neighborhood.

Certainly, the parcel is in a great, well, | think itis in a great location, but it is unique in terms of

its footprint, square footage, the elevation change, I believe there is pretty significant elevation

change towards the back of that property. I think that somebody else mentioned it earlier. Ridge

Road, lack of access...

without a shared driveway whether or not it is truly a deterrent but if you are going in and spend

money on a parcel, | think that would be a deterrent and it’s not big so there is not a lot you can

do with just over an acre of space.

Pg. 130 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

neighborhood, We have provided a few variances in this neighborhood over the past handful of

years which allow this type of use most recently as we have noted Jiffy Lube on the corner of

Jackson/Ridge which by the way, that building blends in very nicely with the neighborhood and

they have landscaped it very well. | think it is a compliment to the Canandaigua National across

the street in that parcel. Any comments around the character of the neighborhood?

would say it is self-created. No comment? It was a joke. (LAUGHTER) Ok, does anyone have

final thoughts, comments, or questions?

and she’s happy to have it developed lot instead of looking at a weedy, empty lot for years, so I

think that ts the neighbor that is most affected by this particular application.

anything I would think that the traffic from Brusters to this particular business would be more of

an issue just when the little league gets out, every 8-year-old goes to Brusters.

game.

am looking at this more holistically in terms of that parcel being marketed for a greater period

than the 2 ¥2 years, The length of it being closer to the ten plus years in terms of what you tried

to potentially in vision for that parcel, the market reach that was listed in the CBRE letter for the

period of 2014 to 2018 specific to the targeted allowed uses and you had no traction on that . To

me, it carries over to this as well even though it is a shorter window after you segregated that

other piece for Life Storage. So, ] just wanted to go on record for that. Related to the hardship

with that , anyone willing to make a motion? If we do make a motion and once again, I am going

to recommend that we adopt items 2,3...?'m sorry [,2,3 and 4 of the letter from Woods Oviatt

dated March 22, 2023 and the findings and comments related to the four key criteria for a use

variance.

RESOLUTION 23-034 Michael Short made a motion to APPROVE THE USE

VARIANCE Located at 1045 Ridge Road. Applicant

Quattro Development is requesting a USE VARIANCE to

allow the construction of a 1,610 SF oil change facility on a

1.25-acre parce] having SBL# 079,15-1-8.009 located in an

MC Medium Intensity Commercial District under Section

Pg. 131 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

350-18 of the Code of the Town of Webster which was

seconded by: Corrine Volo

VOTE:

Mr. Newtown AYE

Mr. Barone AYE

Mrs. Volo AYE

Mr. Centola AYE

Mr. Short AYE

CONDITIONS:

*¢ The applicant must obtain all necessary governmental permits, including a Town

Building Permit.

e¢ That one-year significant construction shall expire May 9, 2024,

(Corrine Volo read the second application)

SPECIAL PERMIT to allow the seasonal use of an existing barn as a special events space on a

3.85-acre parcel having SBL# 050.03-1-34.2 located in an R-1 Single Family Residential District

under Section 350-103 of the Code of the Town of Webster.

Appearing before the board was Roger Awe. As you know, I have submitted plans and

application and material requesting a special use permit within the development of where we live

at 375 Webster Road, called Red Barn Farms

375. The specific existing structure barn is shown

on the plans and made part of this application which each one of you do have. The existing barn

would be used for special events such as weddings; anniversaries; and charitable events etc. ... It

will be used seasonally only from Apri! I“ thru October 31°. A copy of the clients rental

contract, which is extensive, is attached to the application which I did provide to all of the board

members. Please see the highlighted areas of the clients agreement which would clarify most

questions to the members of the board might have for it’s safe operation. Not only for client but

for some neighbors. The barn is for rent only. The area around the barn is sited on a map which I

presented that each of the board members do have to accommodate 20 vehicles on the property

itself. No cars are permitted to park by contract on the agreement, on Rt. 250 at all, they are not

allowed. Additional parking will be made available by the client off-site. They can provide

shuttle service for their customers if they so desire but again, absolutely no cars will be permitted

on Rt.

250. Since we started renting in 2019, since then we have only had five events there.

Two in 2019. One was a graduation party which my neighbors across the street actually

attended. Then we had a wedding and there were 65 people at the wedding and then of course in

2020 we had COVID. In 2021 and 2022, we had three other events, and they were charity

events. The first one was GIFIS Playhouse which is a down syndrome organization which

takes care of down syndrome . They have a charity fundraiser there on my property which

needless to say, my wife and I did not charge. The Weber Qwantis club also had a special event

there for special children and had a pizza night there and also there was an event held for Hocus

Pocus for those challenged children and my wife and I put up a large screen so they could watch

Hocus Pocus and they could dress up in their costumes. The third one was troop 333 which was

Pg, 132 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

another charity event where they had pizza night but that is all the even that we have had since

my wife and ] decided that we were going to rent out the property and we have informed the

Lions Club as well as the Rotary or any other charitable event, if they need to use the property

for any type of fundraiser for a charity event, we are more than happy to do that at no charge to

myself or my wife. The contract we put into place because the very first party that we have to be

honest with you there were 65 guest there and some of them did park on 250 and I realized at

that time, that it was not going to work because if ] certainly was a neighbor in the area, I

certainly wouldn’t want the cars line up on 250 which would cause some harm to cars passing in

or bicycle riders or people that were walking so in 2021 my wife and I put an extensive contract

that the clients must sign and as you know, the board has a discretion that anytime that contract

is not abided by, can abort with any discussion that you make today of you approve it you can

actually void the contract. 1 am open to any questions that the board may have. If you don’t

mind, [ do wear hearing aids Mr. Chairman, if you could speak a little louder because I can’t turn

them up any louder than what they are. I do apologize.

We didn’t hold anything for 2023 and I think we didn’t do anything for 2022 because the

town....when I found out...the Fire Department actually came by and a very nice gentleman and

he was inquiring so I let him in the barn and he said, you know you need a couple of fire

extinguishers and what he said was, I would suggest you do, you really have to go before the

board and get a special permit and I said I would be more than happy to do that so at that point,

my wife and I shut it down and we didn’t do anything for 2022 or 2023 at all. Like I said, it’s

only from April until October and I would like to tell you that we would like to rent it every

week but needless to say, we certainly don’t want a party on our property ever single week. We

are going to be very, very restrictive to how many parties we actually have from September until

October.

an issue.

Pg. 133 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

up on 250 and my wife and I said, this is not good, we have to figure out another way to do this,

So, that is when we decided after COVID that the client would have to sign a contract and under

no circumstances can they park a car on 250 or else they would have to leave the premises

immediately. You don’t want to put anyone’s life in danger. There is a lot of bicycles and a lot

of people that walk their dogs there and we didn’t want them to walk on 250 because that road

heavily trafficked, especially a lot of motorcycles and trucks.

people. At the wedding that we did have, there was 65 people.

picturesque property I would rather not have. I would rather the board tell me forget about it

and not do it because it would just ruin the look of the property. For the one day for twenty cars,

its comfortable and it looks ok. If I added additional parking there, my wife and I would never

do that.

barn and beautiful property. Based on the map that you provided, the highlighted space of the

parking, the parking alongside the driveway has a fairly steep decline there so was the intent to

parallel park and that’s one question and then, the area in which y6ou are showing which would

be I guess to the north of your driveway that area there at least highlighted, there is no way you

are going to be able to fit 25 cars in there. Now if that went all the way up to, I believe you have

another more modern barn, on the north side of your property, if I remember correctly.

driveway, the parking that is highlighted in yellow was on the right, but you can actually park

cars on the left side of the driveway as well as in the driveway in our south end and behind the

house itself. We do have gravel parking that actually fits two cars, and you can double up into

four. So, to be honest with you, 25 would be pushing it and J think 20 would be more

comfortable and if the board decided that 20 cars would with the extended property, I would

limit it to

20. If you want to limit it to 15, I will limit it to [5 and they have to use off-site

parking.

25. You have to and this is where I am a little

confused in the contract. Do you provided offsite parking and transportation?

parking. The town has parking al] over the place, thank goodness, but they have to supply a

shuttle service. Some of the weddings that I have been to too they don’t want you on property or

Pg. 134 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

they would actually meet in a parking lot or in a park and there is shuttle service that takes you

to and from that maybe runs for one hour or two house. I have been to maybe tow weddings like

that. And listen, Iam sure we have had a number of calls where going back, that was a

hindrance. No one likes having shuttle service, so it is going to be limited use, so it is mostly 20

30 people have a small party and thinks like that. The barn was built in 1900 and how this came

about was my son and IJ, he had a wedding on his property and there was only about 25 people

there and that is how this actually came about. The Wedding Planner said, Gee, this is such a

beautiful property. You should think about renting it out for parties. So, I didn’t give it any

thought until about a year later and then I said ts this something that we want. This barn is

historic barn. It was awarded an award by the Webster Historical Society over by the museum.

If you have ever been in the barn, I renovated it. It is really a beautiful work of art. Whoever

built that, it’s just incredible and just to let it sit there and not be appreciated. As a matter of fact,

it was featured on Channel 10, Kuchko, is that how you say the gentleman’s name? Kuchko

actually came on the property, took some photos of it and he featured it on Channel 10 and the

barn was also featured on the Webster Magazine on the front page. Tom Marley who is a barn

guy, photographs barns all over the country, all over New York State actually. He put a very

beautiful picture of the barn up. It’s a very beautiful barn and if we can make a couple doilars

and if we don’t, that’s fine. | am happy to leave it.

water use?

wedding, they had these nice porta potties that they put in the back of the house that you actually

can’t see from the road. They have to bring all the bottied water. Any liquor, they have to have

a license on the premises, they have to show ID. Like I said, the contract is about that thick

(showing with his hands) .

will open this up for public comment . If you care to speak for or against this application please

come to the podium and state your name and address, please.

Elden Tripp at 378 Webster Road: I live directly across from the party barn. I have been there

for 34 years, 48 in total, in the Town of Webster. I worked for 30 years for Monroe County Parks

Department, and I have many experiences with both good parties and bad. Lam also on the

board of directors for the Webster Union Cemetery, and f know the chair sent a letter to the

board with his concerns about parking and people walking through the cemetery. I myself have

concerns about the noise levels of a party when you are putting a loved one in the grave, in the

cemetery which is right next door. The other thing with the increased traffic. There are burials

possible every single day of the week and there is big processions and cars pass by nry house in a

Pg. 135 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

line slowly turning into the cemetery itself which can be rather hazardous on that road because

people have been driving like crazy there. I am essentially against the Red Barn special events

permit and, in my experience, | have only had special events permits, per each event so I know

what was going on. This is more like a blanket that could cover the entire season. 1s it a permit

or variance on the zoning.

conditioned by the board.

party and the second wedding, I was up in the Adirondacks camping. The first one wasn't bad

but at the graduation party, there were cars everywhere. It was a disaster as far as parking on

the side of the road. Noise pollution, I have said that before. The cemetery having a burial there

with a party going on next door which would be a major distraction and to the neighbors as far

as that goes. The parking at Roger's barn, as you know, is very limited and it is not unusual if

someone comes late if they miss the shuttle bus to park anywhere, they can, which is on the road.

Is there going to be special police? Is the road going to be posted with no parking signs?

Especially down in front of the cemetery. The other concern that I have is, the value of our

property if this is a commercial enterprise and the pricelist is right on the website and I know if I

would have moved in 89, I would have not bought the property if | would have known it was a

party house across the street. Not at all. I moved out of the city to come to Webster to live in

peace and quiet in the country and that is about it.

haan and Kathy Morris at 362 Webster Road: Across the street from the proposed barn. So, we

just don’t believe a commercial activity like this belongs in a residential area. In the summer we

like to sleep with our windows open and if there is an occasional graduation party on Woodhull,

you can hear it, and this is going to be much closer. So, we have concerns around noise, the

lights, and the traffic. The traffic on our road is crazy and this is just going to add to it, and 1

think put some people at risk, if they have a lot of folks going in and out of that location. So,

those are our main concerns. You know, noise and detracting from the character of the

neighborhood. The neighborhood was established as a residential area, and we just think it is

going to be a big detraction to the neighborhood.

that the applicant recognized after an even or maybe two that the parking situation was going to

become an issue and maybe is strengthened up his contract and limited it to 25 cars for onsite

parking only . If that is the case, and it’s policed very well, 25 cars our route 250 is pretty much

nothing, right, would you agree to that?

Pg. 136 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

irrelevant anymore, if its policed well. So, help me understand, beyond the traffic, is it cars

parked in his lawn, is it, when you say light pollution, I don’t believe there is many outdoor

lights there or what I would call bright lights. It’s more toned down. What do you mean in

terms of light pollution?

across the street from the cemetery and about three doors down and across the street from the

barn.

(Merk and Kathy Morris: Right. We can see the barn, line of site from our living room windows.

So, we would just prefer not to have extra noise is the main thing.

way that is what I am interpreting from you.

fraud and Kathy Morris: Yes, that is the main thing. Ru) 1 would like to add to, if it took a

Fireman to come and suggest that he needed to have a variance at parties, his son in law is a

Fireman so he should have been aware that it needed to have a special permit and should have

been aware of special safety conditions that he obviously became aware of later. That is a big

question. Also, during the summer, addressing that there were no complaints, when there were

parties before, there are graduation parties one weekend here and there on 250 so it is common

to see one or two houses that have cars parked so to complain about one party was not really

obvious at that point but if this is going to be every single weekend, maybe twice a weekend, it is

going to be an issue to neighbors, the noise level is going to be a concern to us and again, it was

established as a residential area not a commercial area.

events, I believe is April | to October

31. If this board were to move forward with the approval!

or the issuance of a special permit and limited to let’s say, six events during that window, how do

you feel about that?

some sort of limitation might be a step in the right direction but still, the board can be able to

respond to complaints about individual parties...

Pg. 137 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

couple of other town entities.

and shut it down

this board and maybe after a year or whatever the board decides, and if the neighbors are in

complaint, that is a heck of a motivation for Mr. Awe to run a good operation there because

obviously he doesn’t want to upset the neighbors. Even if he does receive this permit, it is

subject to review and revocation so that is important.

Mark and (ij Morris: So, 1 would address that limiting it to six events, 1 still think that sets a

very bad precedence. It was a residential neighborhood. I lived there 19 years; I have seen the

changes. Why should a residential neighborhood now serve one person and change the whole

dynamic of the area.

spoke. This was an operation in 2019 and I asked Mr. Artuso if there were any complaints and

there was not one complaint that was fielded by the town, did I understand that correctly?

street from this, how come you never complained about this knowing that is was a residential

district? | personally, if a neighbor started events in their barn, probably would have said

something to the town. What is going on, why are we in 2023 and now there is a concern over

this? So, I’m confused.

deer’ and Kathy Morris: So, we assumed it was his family who was in there.

SOMEONE SPEAKING OUTLOUD IN THE AUDIENCE

barn until one of our neighbors came and told us. So, the two parties that we noticed there we

thought they were family. As a matter of fact, we know his son in law got married at that barn so

how would we know that it was now going to become an event barn. There are graduation

parties around.

Pg. 138 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

Mark and Karly) Morris: But if this happens every weekend...

understand, We understand your points, thank you very much. Please state your name and

address.

Mitch Daly at 1340 Sagebrook Way: Our property is located directly behind 375 Webster Road.

So, our backyard completely abuts that property. | am here to express my opposition to the

application for the special use permit for special events space at 375 Webster Road. As the

board is aware, 375 Webster Road is within the R-I Single Family Residential District. Within

that district there are nine permitted uses. Two of them, communication towers and bed and

breakfast are permitted upon the issuance of a special use permit by the town and Planning

Board respectively. Permitted uses DO NOT INCLUDE special events spaces by special use

permit or otherwise. In fact, special use permits for special events spaces do not exist within the

town code. We contend that the Zoning Board of Appeals lacks the original jurisdiction to grant

said permit because this is not expressly delegated in the town code. Additionally, I would argue

that this application constitute a change of use on a state road which should have triggered a

review by NY State Department of Transportation, and I don't know if that has happened, but it

certainly was not in the application materials which would have to be done to access any impact

on Rt

250. Also, general municipal law 239m would require this application to be submitted to

the county as a change of use on a state road. As of our attorneys last check with the county, this

has not been done, which would also prevent the board granting this permit at this time. Setting

our questions aside about the authority of the Zoning Board on this issue, | think the application

also fails to meet the standards that are outlined within the zoning code. Our neighbor spoke to

it to some degree but. Standard one states the uses will not interfere with a reasonable use of

adjacent properties and I think we can objectively argue that having events within INAUDIBLE

our backyards and fronts for seven months out of the year could have a reasonable impact on

our enjoyment of our outside spaces. Standard four states that the proposed use will not interfere

with the preservation of the general character of the of the neighborhood in which the use is to

be conducted. As mentioned before, the neighborhood is a residential neighborhood. It's

quaint, it’s quiet. The entire reason we bought out home is because of the privacy and the quiet

that it affords us. The applicants stated in the materials that the noise will be kept below 60

decibels and will not be heard beyond the boundary of the property. Sixty decibels is

conversation level. It seems unlikely that at weddings and parties with guests and music playing

the volume would stay below that level and not go past the boundaries. In the application as

mentioned already the events are going to be hosted over a seven-month period but the property

accommodates, and I know they said 25 but apparently 20 cars on the lot but feel the need to

shuttle or they would be required to have additional shuttles to bring guests in. I don’t think that

it's conceivable that events of the scale up to 85 people as previously mentioned over an

extended time frame and as a comment was just made, wanting to be done every weekend, if

possible, it's impossible to think that it wouldn't disrupt the general character of a residential

neighborhood. | believe it’s clear that not only does this application not meet the standards that

Pg. 139 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

are outlined within the zoning code, but this board doesn’t have the jurisdiction to grant said

permit. As I illuded to before, we have already retained council and should this permit be

granted, we would seek to commence judicial review through Article 78 proceeding. We feel we

need to do what is necessary to maintain the character of our neighborhood. Something that this

board can easily do by denying this permit.

Seeing no one, we will close the public comment portion of this meeting and return it back to the

board and the applicant, if you could step up. Out of curiosity, knowing that you have neighbors

at Sagebrook Way, Webster Road, and a couple of them have stepped up to the podium and

spoke this evening in objection to this. ] am just curious as to why you would want to entertain

this type of venue in a residential district.

mentioned, I had approached him, and he was actually at the graduation party that we had, and

he has been there since we have had the five parties and he has never expressed. There is a

neighbor on the corner of Sagebrook and I did give you a letter and a young couple that is right

on the corner of Sagebrook who has no objection to us having which I provided a letter to the

barn. | know when I tell you that I don’t want to rent this every single weekend, because we

certainly like our privacy ourselves so I can assure you whether it is in the contract if the town

would like to limit the amount of parties I would have, I would be more than happy to do that

because this is not something. ....how can I say this, it’s not something Iam looking to make a

living on 11’s more for the enjoyment of the property and like ! said, three of the times that we

rented it was for charity events and if I could give it to a charity event once a month, ] would be

happy to do so.

and I am going to guess, Mrs. Volo you were here at the time and maybe Mr. Barone, it was

Pg. 140 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

called the Webster House and the Webster House, it was a little bit more than a bed and

breakfast, it turned into a party house and they held a lot of events there and it became a

significant nuisance to the community and to that area in particular and did end up resulting in

multiple calls, if ] am remembering correctly, to the town, complaining about the events that

were laking place in a residential district event center. So, that is one comment because we do

have a little bit of history.

of Webster. Whether it is a larger lot of four acres or it’s a small lot at one acre or a half an acre

to have recurring interest in special permits being granted by this board for these types of

activities. I personally live on a large lot in a large lot community of three acres and pretty much

everybody in that development has pole barn buildings and I personally would say are you

kidding me if somebody came in and wanted to hold an event center on their property in my

development. So, I feel for the neighbors in terms of what they would like to see in there area,

the envelope that they live in. I think it would send a significant message to the town and send a

precedent that me personally as a Zoning Board Chairman, today, am not really interested in to

be quiet honest with you but I will turn it over to the other members of the board for their input

and opinions.

on both sides of it. 1 can only imagine, and I do also live on a large lot area with pole barns on

everybody’s property so I can completely agree with everything you are saying. Looking at the

application itself, the 25 cars, { don’t see if feasible on that property in of itself being that there is

no water usage, raises concerns of sanitary concerns for me on the property. Yes, I understand

that you can bring in porta johns and other things. There is a slew of concerns that I have and for

me, If 1 was on that property line and I drove that neighborhood this weekend and you can see

that barn, you can see the ponds from every one of the immediate neighbors and whether it be

weddings, whether it be graduations, if there is a DJ that noise is going to travel regardless. So,

being in residential, I would have significant concerns and what precedent does it set moving

forward. I second everything that you said.

effort that went into this contract, but at the end of the day, who is going to police this contract,

you? Are you going to go out there with a noise decimeter to see if you exceed 60 decibels? Are

you going to be the one telling them that there is 26 cars when 25 are allowed and how are you

going to make sure that they remove that one car off the property. Nine o’clock comes around

and maybe you are at a friend’s house, or you are in the house and now it’s 9:30, who is

constantly policing this? That is another concern that [ have because there are a lot of restrictions

in this contract and it would take significant effort to police everything that you have in here, in a

residential district. Mr. Barone or Mrs. Volo?

Pg. 141 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

neighbors having a party. On the contrary, I actually like hearing people having fun but what

you said is true. I was a little concerned myself about the sanitary condition. You have 60-80

people with an outhouse, women don’t really like using an outhouse. It’s a tough one because, if

the gentleman said he belonged to the Lions Club and said too the guys, come on over to my

barn, we are going to have a get together over there, that is just a social meeting it’s not a

business and if that was the case, I don’t think we could stop him but when he is getting money

for what he is doing, now it becomes a business and he would be motivated....although he says

it's more of a hobby then a business, let’s face it, once word gets out this could grow

substantially so [ understand what the neighbors are feeling so we are in a balancing act. I

understand what this gentleman is feeling, and I understand what the neighbors are feeling but

we have to do what is good for the town in general so I would have to agree with Jamie.

it and 1 know the gentleman mentioned charity events and I’m all for charity events and typically

much more subdued then graduation parties, at least the ones I have been to, but it is already a

business. There is a website and there is pricing, it already is a business so. It’s not everybody

coming out of the club going to the bar and hanging out.

was talking about if you belong to a club what is to stop him. At what point and we are not

going to answer that tonight, if we wanted to just let charitable organizations use his facilities for

free. The lack of sanitary facility, a running water toilet or even the fact of the food catering has

to be brought in and maintained at a temperature. You can get that renting out North Ponds Park

has those same potential restrictions. If you did it when the bathrooms were locked, prior post

season, so that doesn’t bother me as much as you said, the residents, noise because you did buy

in a residential area and there is that expectation that it is going to be used as a residential

manner so I would be all for....I don’t know, like I said, if we have the ability to do that but if he

wanted to let organizations use it at no cost, which he is doing now anyhow, is there a limit? ]

don’t know what the law is but what point is it a business if you are not charging. Is there

anything to do that we can make sure that we respect the residents but also allow him to use his

property the way he wants to use it without disturbing his neighbors.

see if there are other avenues to pursue this venture but at this point, this evening, I am not

willing to vote in favor and condition a special permit. Me personally, I will not speak for the

other board members.

Does this look like a major home occupation where you are not using the home but using the

building on the premises. It is not using equipment that is out of the ordinary for a home. I think

the lack of sanitary facilities will probably limit a lot of functions and [am certainly not going to

rent if for my son’s wedding. Is it something that you would rent for, I don’t know, Cub Scout. I

don’t even know. A bunch of little boys together or whatever but there are home occupations that

Pg. 142 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

are permitted . The special permit is the avenue that allows a major home occupation to be

conditioned and allowed in a residential area. So, could tt be construed as that?

recommendation to you is to go back and possibly look into other options in terms of the town

code and maybe check with Mr. Artuso again but unless somebody else is willing to make a

motion, lam not. We can tabled it, we cannot deny it, if you would like.

as much as I would like to have it now, I do respect my neighbors opinion especially Denny who

lives across the street from me. I respect the chairman and the board members who gave advice

so I would like to withdraw my application for the benefit of my neighbors and the benefit of the

board. I certainly don’t want the Town of Webster to go into any legalities because my wife and

1 decide to have a barn so I respectfully would like to rescind my motion and let it go.

commend you for that. Thank you!

(Corrine Volo read the third application}

G & H AUTO SALES: Located at 1021 Five Mile Line Road. Applicant DSB Engineers is

requesting an AREA VARIANCE to allow a 25’ front buffer area where 50° is required

associated with the construction of a 6-space parking area for display of vehicles for sale on a

0.74-acre parcel having SBL# 079318-1-3 located in an CO Commercial Outdoor Storage

District under Section 350-20 of the Code of the Town of Webster.

Pg. 143 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

Appearing before the board was Walt Baker with DSB Engineers and with me tonight is the

owner, G & H Auto, Mr. Haldun Ince. As stated by the board member, we are here tonight for a

front setback variance. The board may recall we started this....we purchased the property in

2012, yes, it’s been over ten years that he has had the property and we actually came to the board

back then and in fact, if you look at the map that I submitted, you will see that we received some

area variances for the property back in 2012. We have also been to the Planning Board at that

time, and he purchased it for his auto sales and also uses it for doll up in the inside and electronic

installation and that type of thing. So, back then we got the approval for the backyard that he

used as a parking area and he was going to have a monument sign in the front yard and as time

went by, he was basically selling most of his cars through the internet. It is a big deal now a

days, everyone kind of lists them on the internet and people buy cars. You see all these different

things, Vroom, and everything else. You can buy a car sitting in your office and do it. After

time has gone by, he is thinking it would be nice if he had display vehicles in the front. No

parking for customers in the front just for display for six vehicles. That is what we are calling it

and that is what would fit right in front of the building. We have been to the Planning Board last

month and we received a positive recommendation from them. We had a concept meeting, and

they should have sent you a letter regarding this application in support of the area variance and

again we would like to pursue that obviously. As time has gone by, he thinks and has actually

made statements to me that potential! buyers would have difficulty when they spoke with him on

the phone and says, ok come down to the property and | can show you the car and they end up

driving right by and end up at the corner lot because their cars are right up front, and they have

displays and everyone is familiar with Five Mile Line Road.

preexisting and the setback 57 feet from the property. Obviously, it is a converted single-family

home and he purchased it back in 2011, | think, and it was from Vision Automotive which I did

work for Dan Edwards back then when we did the Ford site on Ridge Road, and he purchased

that property at that time not knowing if he could use it or not. It set vacant for I don’t know

how many years Danny had it so then Haldun came along, and he purchased it for his small

operation, and this is what Danny's Vision Automotive turned into. So, that is basically in a

nutshell what we are looking for is a front setback variance. Obviously, we have to go back to

the Planning Board, and I think they are going to have some comments regarding landscaping.

Pg. 144 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

buffer. don’t remember seeing that.

the past, | think there was a taking of land for that corner property which is why there is really no

buffer at all, very small.

same as it is now.

to the north and you are going to be at 25 foot, and they are at as Mr. Barone pointed out, at zero.

beyond that.

spaces,

have one spot to display them which would be to the east. Ok, this meeting is open to anyone

Pg. 145 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

wishing to speak for or against this application. Seeing none, we will return the discussion back

to the board. No public comment on this one.

RESOLUTION 23-035 Jamie Newtown made a motion for TYPE II SEQR

which was seconded by: Barry Barone.

VOTE:

Mr. Newlown AYE

Mr. Barone AYE

Mrs. Volo AYE

Mr. Centola AYE

Mr. Short AYE

Well, what they are asking for is minimal display space between the building and the road. They

kept it as close to the building as they possible can. When I ...] didn’t realize there was a car

dealership there. Thankfully Josh puts up that blue sign...so I could find it, but I wouldn’t pull in

there to buy a car because the visibility just isn’t there so in order for you to do business I

understand. It is a very reasonable request and then when you look at this overhead picture here

and the building on the corner, they are selling cars because the front of the car is right up to the

front of the pavement, you’re not out of character with the neighborhood at all and to Corrine’s

point, it is going the line between commercial outdoor storage and residential is still another couple

hundred feet to the north. So, you are not getting close to that. So, there’s no environmental

impacts physical or environmental. There’s no negative impacts. We don’t have any objections

from any of the neighbors. You know, it’s not out of character with the neighborhood, your just

trying to make a living selling cars and trying to get a little bit of visibility and as I said before,

what you are asking for is the minimum that you can get away with. You are not getting any closer

to the road then you absolutely have to. Does anybody want to add to that?

This request is not out of character in the neighborhood:

There will not be a detriment created to nearby properties:

The benefit is not achievable by any other method:

This request is not substantial:

There are no adverse physical or environmental impacts to the site or neighborhood:

The difficulty is not self-created:

This is not an undesirable change:

This request 1s not significant:

Sa eee ho)

like a sign, was that already approved?

two sheets. It’s on the back side and the sign was approved last month. They couldn’t act on the

parking because obviously we needed a variance, so we have to go back to the Planning Board for

site plan approval and | did receive comments prior to that from the town staff and he is going to

have to embellish the site with some landscaping.

Pg. 146 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

Barone, I drove by and oh, it’s the corner lot, it’s not the corner lot, where is it? So, [can appreciate,

the blue sign definitely did help.

RESOLUTION 23-036 Barry Barone made a motion to APPROVE THE AREA

VARIANCE Located at 1021 Five Mile Line Road.

Applicant DSB Engineers is requesting an AREA

VARIANCE to allow a 25’ front buffer area where 50” is

required associated with the construction of a 6-space

parking area for display of vehicles for sale on a 0.74-

acre parcel having SBL# 0793 18-1-3 located in an CO

Commercial Outdoor Storage District under Section 350-

20 of the Code of the Town of Webster which was

seconded by: Corrine Volo.

VOTE:

Mr. Newtown AYE

Mr. Barone AYE

Mrs. Volo AYE

Mr. Centola AYE

Mr. Short AYE

CONDITIONS:

e The applicant must obtain all necessary governmental permits, including a Town

Building Permit.

e That one-year significant construction shall expire May 9, 2024.

(Corrine Volo read the fourth application)

Castiglione is requesting a letter of recommendation from the Zoning Board of Appeals to

approve the itinerant vendor’s license to allow the operation of a food cart in the parking lot

of Charles E. Sexton Park on a 48-acre parcel having SBL # 079,08-1-15 located in an OP

Office Park District under Section 234-5D(1)(b) of the Code of the Town of Webster.

Appearing before the board was Alan Castiglione. Thank you, board, for at least listening to me.

I own a little hot dog cart and I know you see a little picture of it. ’m thinking of putting it at

North Ponds. Excuse me, I have never done this before. I think it would be a great location. It

will benefit the park and everybody and I don’t know what else to say. It’s a hot dog cart. I hate

to say it that way, but I only want to put in a few hours in a week. I am retired guy and | figured;

V}l do that. [t’s all pretty self-explanatory. I sell hotdogs,

Pg. 147 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

discovered as part of her approval process, it required a written recommendation by the Zoning

Board of Appeals. It is not a variance per say, it’s just a close evaluation from any potential

negative impacts and that is my understanding of it.

looking to do something similar.

they probably heard me talking about it and probably want to do it.

have my own water, my own garbage pail, everything is there, you know. I even bought a

refrigerator for the back of my truck so the food won’t be in a cooler so it will all stay frozen. |

sell frozen hotdogs. Actually, the prices went down from the menu because last year I used to

buy grass fed beef, of course, they don’t sell that anymore. So, now I buy restaurant quality. So,

the hamburgers are going to go down 2.00 dollars.

Alan Castiglione; 2.00 doliars less, 4.00 dollars. That is how much more the grass-fed beef was.

It is definitely a lot better hamburger, but I also got a lot of complaints for the price, so let’s go

down a little bit.

a better deal ] mean my hotdogs are Zweigles’s and my jumbo hotdogs are made by Kirkland,

and they are Costco. That is the same one you buy if you go there to eat.

have to. | am a 62-year-old guy, how long do you think I can stand outside. (LAUGHTER)

one for the cart and one for the truck?

Alan Castiglione; Yes, one for the truck and one for the cart. | mean, | could go in the grass, but I

don’t think that would be proper, you know.

Pg. 148 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

specifically, but you just mentioned that another person came in and inquired. To me it seems

like there would be identified spaces that would be available in this domain that are approved,

pre-approved and that there is some kind of application process for it. Now, we probably don’t

have an issue providing a letter, but this is a much bigger issue than this one cart because once

one person does it 50 are going to do it. I am pretty sure that this board in the future does not

want to approve every person that comes in front of them so if this is the process that has to take

shape tonight, this should not be the process that goes for the next one.

process.

locations, and you apply for permits to that location.

problem. Nobody has ever gone through this...but afterwards...but in Irondequoit, I was in last

year and I had a private store, or a parking lot and the owner said I could park there. They

allowed me to park there. No hassles, just as long as I had insurance. You can see I have

insurance and I can put you guys down if you want as a rider on it and that’s all I had to do in

Irondequoit. Fairport they just have to have, you pick a spot, and the Fire Marshal has to see tf it

will be approvable, but they all have the same thing. Here I am hoping they change the process

the way we do this so that we will just get a permit for a certain area, and it will be ok instead of

go in front of the board every year.

food cart areas and then have a process to apply that is approved elsewhere outside of this board.

walk?

Pg. 149 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

would pul in there for the people who just want to walk the parking lot, so they don’t have to

cross over the parking lot. I figured is more curious for the other people to park next to the

park instead of being in back of the park.

the Fire Marshal and the Parks Department. It ts not our decision where to put it. I don’t even

know why this is here.

EVERYONE SPEAKING OUT

ago. I think at this point and time, the recommendation will be, my opinion would be, the

recommendation is, sure we are fine with but the Fire Marshal and Parks that have to be the one

that identify the location. INAUDIBLE (Barry speaking)

with the parks. They were supposed to send you a recommendation letter and I don’t know if

they did or not.

it was a good idea. Josh thought it was a good idea. So that is why I am here.

and Katherine can pul together a letter and we can have the chairman sign it and then we would

provide that to the town clerk so that she would be able to issue the actual permit.

food trucks and food carts and defines a process. Otherwise, I don’t support it because I don’t

think it’s appropriate for this board.

are not there yet,

and inspect me a couple of 2-3 times a year. The food is all done by the health board. It’s not

like I am just out there with a grill cooking hotdogs and hamburgers. IU went through all the

formats and permits, you seen it. The insurance, the whole nine yards.

Pg. {50 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting

provide that unless anyone has an objection.

CONDITIONS:

* Board supports the request and feels the Fire Marshal and Parks & Rec should

provide designation spot.

Since there is no further application before the Board Jamie Newtown adjourned tonight's

meeting at 9:30 p.m.

Corrine Volo, Secretary

Katherine Kolich, Recording Secretary

FILED WEASTER THN CLK

Deut. Me Magu

Pg. 151 May 9, 2023 Zoning Meeting