Zoning Board Meeting

here right that if everybody can stand for the pledge of allegiance plg to the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right um first item mm 1599 Ridge Road single family residents located at 1599 Ridge Road applicant Joe Baron is requesting area variances to allow front and side setbacks less than what is required associated with the construction of a 1 158 square foot single family residence on a 62 acre parcel having SBA number 08 0.02 d232 located in an R3 single family residential district under section 350-12 of the code of the town of web y thank you um Dan Peters I'm the

architect um involved with this project appeared before this board uh couple months back um last time we were here uh we presented um essentially the same plan with some adjustments that I'm going to talk about I did hand out uh an updated um folded um plan that's in front of you there I also so you know um included approval from Department of Health um for the septic system that Dean Bay designed as well as a footprint of house planned it's just a mirror image because last time the one I gave you was the wrong one um so this one is the right one um so the adjustments uh that were done um last time when we were here the septic system was planned uh in the south portion of the property which would have been within um the flood plane there is a um delineated kind of gray snake looking line that's on the property there who's ever navigating thank you um the house itself is the um

shaded out rectangular looking piece there and that is in the same position that we showed last time it's 66 point something feet I can't remember and see that far um but it's the setback off the road is 60 so we don't we're not asking for a variance there um the septic system system was which was last time designed south of the house is now in the front of the house north of the house uh you can see where the line comes out of the house into a 1250 tank and then the delineated um leech area uh that's all been submitted to Department of Health and approved uh based on that paperwork I gave you um and the ask tonight is similar to last time is sidey yard setback variants so instead of the 15 feet it's the same numbers that this plan shows is last time uh so we're asking for leniency on the two side yards we did load the house closer to the east than the West because that's where the majority of the utility lines are going to be coming through so we

thought we needed the the room there so we weren't digging on the neighbor's property and with me tonight I forgot to say Sean FICO he's the owner of the property and Joe Baron uh who I'm assisting as the applicant thank you um but uh you guys were able to get the Monro County Department of uh Health approval so um any concerns with building in the protective FEMA floodway

at this point or is there anything that you guys are doing we're going to have to mitigate raise the house the there's construction means and methods that we're aware of that we have to build uh I will state it's not part of this application but the owner likely is going to Red delineate that's not been confirmed he's he is not sure on that yet we're trying to get an idea of time and process we're asking for approval as this sits it's understood that if he leaves the delineation the way it's currently shown he's going to have to build the house per standards within a flood plane gotcha okay um Bo have any any questions just to clarify to make sure that I do have the setbacks correctly we're looking at 7.86 on the west 5 ft on the East and then 6636 front setb now as opposed to what was the previous house the previous house was the same um I mean delineated on this you when you

say previous house you don't mean the existing house no the the house that the house that used to be there the house that used to be there was a lot closer was a lot closer to the road so you're we're further back than that right okay right I want to say and I'm shooting from the hip a bit the original house was in the 35 foot range and that's off the that's off the West Property Corner which is the closest one the East property corner it's further away correct yeah it looks like it was about 20 ft based on R provided us he Dan uh if you are going to build it with acknowledging that the uh the floodway zone is as delineated on your plan would be grading change it all I mean you would you would raise a grading or just the uh the house itself we

anticipate there's going to be some grading because of the fact that we're trying to get obviously out of a potentially wet area um but the grading that we've determined is just going to be just to keep anything away from the house it's not it's not going to be graded I would think plus or minus 10 feet around the house perimeter the intention is not to go and regrade the whole site thank you if uh there's any uh public uh that wants to speak for or against uh this project please come up that I'll bring it back to the board any other uh questions uh board might may have all right um with that guess I'll uh move forward with uh Seeker uh like to make a motion for a type two action under Seeker pursuant to nycr section

617.980.9025 other because it's in the flood plane are we allowed to approve it without DEC approval or yeah so actually pending DEC approval the dec wouldn't really be getting involved in this it's it's a town issued flood plane permit that would be issued by our office okay all right so I don't need all right Josh is there a DEC PR re required even outside of the Town permitting process no not that I'm aware of there's no Wetlands on the site just the flood plane okay the the MTH that's on the screen right now it notes that site disturbances

would be required to submit to DEC for a permit right those notes need to be edited they're incorrect okay just want clear y thanks Jos that was my concern thank you right I can make a motion if no one has any further questions all right I'd like to make a motion to Grant area variances at 1599 Ridge Road as follows a 5T East Side setback a 7.86 West Side setback a front set setback excuse me of 66.3 Ft in associated with the construction of a 158 squ ft single family residence and a 62 acre parcel with number 080 02-2 d32 located in an R3 single family District under the section 350-12 of the quote of the town of Webster second Mrs Volo hi Mr

lagner hi Mr CA I Mr short I Mr spanada I then that's conditioned onee meaningful construction receipt and approval of all necessary government permits does this Al to any planning board approval Josh uh no it would not okay um and to comply with whatever building requirements based on the 5ot setback to the property line as well as any flood construction methods needed you have your uh you have your zoning variant thank you appreciate it thank you thank you we ready for 671 excuse me low

Point all right 671 Willow Point Lane accessory structure located at 671 Willow Point Lane applicant Bryant bishoping is requesting area variances to allow a side and rear setback less than what is required and to allow the placement of an accessory structure to be nearer to the front property line than the rear line of the main residence associated with the construction of a 500 squ ft detached wood frame structure and a 0.46 acre parcel having s number 06513 d211 located in an R3 single family residential district under sections 350-12 and 35-36 of the code of the town of Webster good evening all right well good evening board uh my name is Adam Cummings I'm the engineer for the project helping out my friend Brian bishoping who's the applicant the owner of this property uh so I don't have anything else to add on those two variances that we have on there it is a unique lot since it's a corner lot with the two intersecting roads so those always print uh present

unique challenges since there is no real backyard or rear lot it's always two front yards two sides uh we did look into uh making this accessory structure code compliant but that would push it to the back or the further to the West part of this property and that's where the overhead power lines are that feed the building so as the application states that was deemed to be unfeasible because of the cost that would be incurred to move such a service line and I would like to note that the plan is to remove the existing shed that is in the same location that's been there for decades and this would replace that um the other variant part is to have it further than the back plane or the rear lot uh the rear of the building plane so having that pushed a little forward it's still not beyond the front of the house so there wouldn't be a front setback variance which is why that's not listed there and I don't have anything else to add other than any questions the board might have can um sorry you mentioned that you're not looking for a front set back variance is that

correct it's it's just the side and rear set back and then the other variance is that it's not nearer to the front property line than the rear line of the main residence which is the wording of your code here in town um I have two questions certainly um is there a reason I guess number one is there a reason that this couldn't be attached to the existing house so that then at least that well the side setback variance would not be required as well or the uh that was investigated but there was so much more cost of attaching it on architecturally it's a lot more difficult to just attach it on to the existing garage okay um and then in terms of the side um it could be pushed further to the South to uh minimize that one but the thought was there's already an existing structure at that point there was an original talk with

the code enforcement building department here to push it closer to the property line but that wasn't deemed to be wanted by the applicant and really didn't want to push it to the three-foot threshold that would require a state variance so 5 foot was agreed upon and it looks similar to a lot of the other accessory structures that are in the neighborhood I counted at least seven from from when I went around to the neighboring four uh streets in the area so if I heard if I heard you correctly um there is I guess you guys did investigate moving it closer instead of I'm reading this correct I don't know is it 20 ft plus or minus of the house I have 57.8 but that's uh to the property line not to the structure itself right we have it as 5 ft to the property line code requires 15 so that's why yeah I guess my question is you guys explored moving it closer to the house further away from the property line yes yes and the reason for not doing that was because there was an existing shed wooden shed there that was the logic and and the preference by the applicant to still have it there there is

um I mean that's certainly the prerogative of the board If you deny it um in terms of that he could still shift it hoping that the um location in terms of the proximity to its a location with the it's it's a strange one the no nearer to the front property line than the rear line of the main residence so meaning it could be shifted to the South if that other Grant uh variance was granted but the applicant would like to pursue this location uh and I um once again the other original one was Code Compliance but as soon as the overhead lines became in we didn't deem it to find full Code Compliance as a viable option and going back to right so no such building should be placed near to the front property line than the rear line or footprint of the main building residence right I mean right so as as we currently have it situated now the front of the proposed garage is in line with the front of correct theed to be B of the house correct versus pushing it back now we do have the overhead power lines that are there uh it's been been about

four or five weeks since I've been out there um but it is feasible to also push that back all the way for full compliance not for full compliance so you've got 25 ft for the building that entire building would have to be pushed back the 25 ft in line with I'm trying to the dimension line says 57.8 um and that's pointing to the back side of the building that whole building would have to be pushed back 25 ft that's still too close of a proximity for the overhead power line understood yep I gota the plan says uh propos garage there's no driveway what what do you intend to use the structure four So the applicant's plan as was stated in there to house he's got quite a bit of um outdoor storage items he does have multiple snowmobiles he's got a lawn tractor uh he has had some neighbors asking if they could or if he could um move some of his items to not be out on the lawn so this would provide him storage for those to to get them out of there thank you but no no plans for a driveway and it it's really just a an for lack of a better term it's called a garage but

it's an accessory structure but he would drive uh his tractor in there and no I just it says garage and without there's no driveway shown so I just right wanted to clarify that no I know we talked that you can't move it entirely into compliance with the overhead line is it possible to shift it back from the front setback of the house I don't know 58 ft or so so it's just a little further back I realize there's not a lot of backyard yep because of that corner lot but yeah I can speak with Brian on that but that is a feasible option to minimize the variant uh once again his preference is to put it where it is it's more symmetric it it lends itself to it but yes it can be pushed back a little further the um plans that that we received or a picture of a set of plans that we received yep um is so I I can't place it on the on the site is the garage door going to be facing Willow Lane or is it going to be facing the back it would be facing

Willow Lane yes so is there going to be a driveway then that the applicant's going to be seeking to gain access to no it once again it's got a lawn tractor it would be um driven across the lawn and if you had to pull a snowmobile trailer in he would just put that across the lawn as well just like it's done right now what's the second floor going to be used for storage [Music] any any other questions right now from the board open up to the public anybody speak for or against the

project good evening my name is Jan arm trout of 670 will Lane I'm the neighbor across from the subject property thank you for the opportunity to address the board um regarding the application to the zoning board of appeals by Brian bishoping of 671 will Lane Lot 44 in the lake Dale subdivision Mr bishoping is seeking to erect a 500t standing accessory building on his property which is located directly across the street from my home and is requesting multiple variances for the proposed accessory structure um Josh could you start the PowerPoint for me please yeah I'm working on it by while you're working and these pictures in this PowerPoint is super important that we're able to open it Bridget I hope you can help us out if uh need be Monro county is known nationally for its well planned and well preserved beautiful suburbs Webster is currently rated in the top 10 of Rochester suburbs for the reasons we know having chosen to live here the lake Dale subdivision

began to be developed in the late 60s you those of you of an age might know my house as mild and Lloyd van Hoover's house it was quite I guess the um house when it was built as it was a custom model by kout wst little a a ranch house it is now a Charming neighborhood with middle class affordable properties mature landscaping and well-maintained properties with the property at 671 willane being the ception Planning and Zoning have allowed our suburbs to maintain their their real attractiveness and I thank you for that and your service for probably is was mostly a thankless job um and I hope that we continue to see careful evaluating of variance appeals and enforcing code and I think I got to wait for the PowerPoint to catch up there we are okay so if I Josh if I just go just wave my hand at you yep you you'll flip okay so this is a neighborhood for those of people might not be aware um it's founded by Clem 250 um and there say Lake day

subdivision next know to say next here is the views of the neighborhood from both Brian Bish shipping's house and my own and I think you can see there that this is you know big houses on usually 6 Acres um well-maintained looking nice this is Will Lane and Cloverwood Cloverwood is what backs up to Brian's property and uh will is of course what we're talking about two area variances are being requested in his documentation Mr bishoping suggests that there will be no undesirable changes in the character of the neighborhood and no detriment will be created to nearby properties so that's my house right there okay which one can white right there lower left hand corner can you go to the next slide please and this is a view of the neighborhood from Mil Creek run when we talk about that Crossing between the two two roads it's mil Creek run and Willow um and these again you can see the the type of neighborhood it is they said mature Landscaping very zal in fact the proposed property will create undesirable changes and will be a

detriment to my property specifically next please the neighborhood is zoned residential and looks residential okay as we just saw in those pictures this is a picture of the property where both and what Circle or squared in red is where the existing metal steel shed is located and it's quite small can you blow that up at all um Josh and then so you can barely see the little shed that's in there so we're not talking a comparable you know shed to shed sort of transition um the construction of a 25x 20 x 20t High out building will cause Mr Bish shipping property to look even more commercial than it already does in contrast to the rest of the neighborhood I want you to take a good look at that and remember it's a photo it's not even in 3D Mr bishoping is also proposing to violate 35 violate code 35036 A.1 from which he has not requested a variance should the plan be approved

okay next and that's the plan that the engineer nicely discussed us and then next here's an elevation of this and it I'm not entirely sure maybe you can tell me um I've seen two different architectural firm names on documents um I'm not sure that you drew these no I did not okay so right yeah right there I I'm not really sure what we're talking about because my look at these documents shows 20t of siding facing my house and the entrance with a concrete slab in front of it to the shed or utility building being in front of the proposed building so there'll be the house the deteriorating Airstream a concrete slab and then this new building okay should the plan be approved the direct view from my house um my living room my front porch the front Gard gens will be a house in need of upkeep with an attached garage a deteriorating Airstream trailer that has not moved in 30 years does not have a license plate

in violation of town code chapter 324 sections 2 3 and 4 a slab of concrete and 20t of siding 20 ft high with no windows this is not compatible with any other property in the neighborhood and suggests that the proposed building may have a variety of uses yet to be determined perhaps requ inquiring down the line a driveway further the late afternoon sun out Willow Lane grades down to mil Creek so on the western side Sun comes in now I've got this building here it cuts okay the late black uh the sun would be blocked by the building in the late afternoon in spring and summer and um that will impact my use of my sidey yards the Gardens that I have there as well as my neighbor across the the creek um who could not be here this evening in Webster as we know Sunshine is real important when we can get it um can we go to the next slide please the applicant contends that um accessory structures and utility sheds

are common in the area common perhaps numerous not so much and none approaching the 500 square ft that is being proposed as the existing sheds in the neighborhood do not appear to be over 200 square ft with any significance the applicant requesting a 150% variance from existing allowances is pretty extreme can we go okay and now and I can't see that far away from here if in fact you excuse me I have to use the mic is there a can there is not no okay this is better if you look at this Slide the house count in the area that we just talked about in the subdivision is 403 there give or take one or two okay the accessory structures are circled in red that are around the big yellow triangle is the proposed building so the percent of houses with accessories structures are 4.9% if the number of unofficial accessory structures you know people just go to Low's and find that ched um double only about 9% of houses have

accessory structures and or sheds the accessory structures in existence appear to accommodate normal residential lawn tractors Recreational Equipment items garden tools TOS Etc next please we it looks like we're about halfway through if we can we'll wrap real quick here take it up thank you okay that's a typical subdivision shed and that as you can see this is kitty corner from my house the other way no objections it's cute it's quaint it's it's reasonable next claim that there are no no impacts okay this this was the view from my house right now I'm not convinced that a 500 ft structure is going to make a difference um in the physical and environmental conditions section of the application Mr bishoping contends that the neighborhood would be improved by the placement of this large building where it is proposed as it would provide screening of recreational vehicles and rubbish are currently exists on the property I am less than confident I have two other concerns that I wish to share with you next

please and this again this is the street as it is now and you know to' be a building um next again all right so Brian submitted letters or signatures from people saying that um they had no our my and his immediate neighbors no no objections next please and he also claimed that this was not self-created well the need to store recreational vehicles landbased or Marine is always self created the applicant is a self-employed electrician with a homebased business if the business requires storage or equipment that exceeds residential standards it is no longer a homebased business and to claim that the structure would be an asset to the community because it would increase screening is only appreciated because of the uncuffed property yard waste and multiple Vehicles the applicant has placed on the property next please these are the views and I want you to look very carefully it you'll see little red spots from those neighbors who sign say yeah this is okay that's how much or where they would actually see the the building next

please and again you can see the way the the streets laid out I'm the person who's across the street next please in terms of the to the building it's questionable as neighbors told me that Brian has to have a place for his business equipment I replied that we're not zone for business another elderly neighbor a practicing Jehovah Witness told me she signed only because she thought it was just a shed and was horrified to learn how big it was and that she was misled into becoming part of government and politics that is incompatible with her faith most concerning though is the third neighbor told me not to look closely at the border between his and Mr bishoping property as his had business going with Mr bishoping I believe next please this business was the placement of buried drain pipes by Mr bishoping last month most likely necessary for stability of the ground for construction of the pro building and no permit was displayed these those pipes empty into the storm sewer that discharges into mil Creek as this drain drainage affects adjacent properties I understand that it would have had the scrutiny as subscribed to number 17 of the short

environmental assessment form quote will the proposed action create storm water discharge either from point or non-point sources Mr be bishoping referen screening with his letter to the board and maintaining the existing screening along the northern side of his property he has neglected screening on any other side how is this building to be accessed the plans make no mention of driveways reinfor for grass areas or other Turf reinforcement for accessing the structure my property is in the floodway for no Creek in the 32 years that I have lived there the value in the storm water and the size of the creek bed has increased especially in Webster following the rules for storm water management is particularly important this month an additional small ditch was dug for discharge into the willow rainstorm sewers call it and so that's the latest one on the far left then that's where the pipes are buried and that's where you can see construction materials that were used in that project call it a shed a utility building a garage a pole barn all names I have seen on documents submitted by the applicant this project is not appropriate for the

residential neighborhood in which it is proposed can we go to the next slide please go back one then all right this yes these are some of the everyday occurrences of types of equipment that currently that red what is that one called the Sledge sled I can't remember it looks like back uh front loader to me but that red piece of equipment is currently in the existing garage um the trailer the snowmobile trailer isn't always a snowmobile trailer great in the driveway it disappeared since this application was submitted but I expect to see it again and then of course we have the Airstream it in fact will create very undesirable changes and will be a detriment to my property specifically thank you thank you appreciate it excuse me do you have a copy of what you read I can give it sure be very helpful thank you bring back to the board

anybody else uh want to talk to um this project I do come on um I'm a resident of Cloverwood uh 1239 so it's around the the block from where I live and the size of the structure is my biggest concern there is no structure freestanding in our neighborhood of this size and magnitude and the fact that uh utility lines would have to be moved because it's twostory that's a massive freestanding building that I think would be an eyesore for our area I know that that's my biggest objection um it just it's a huge uh building that's freestanding it really should be an attached garage uh in my opinion to match the rest of the neighborhood that's pretty much what I have to say thank you any other um comments say one uh nope I think we're good

um all right with that um oh if the applicant wants to address anything certainly and uh Brian will come up for this one I would like I'd be remiss if I didn't point out I just want to remind everybody that we're here about the variances I appreciate what the neighbors are saying about the height of it but it's code compliant the square footage of the area it's code compliant so you it's really difficult for the town to deny something that is code compliant in that respect so thank you go ahead Brian uh so the only thing I'd like to say um addressing a height a height issue um for relocating back the furthest we could back the structure up is approximately 5T just to give distance from the overhead wires um during weather that and then is that a to interject real quick that's regardless of the height even if it was a single story structure oh and this is not a utility shed um that's why I'm calling it accessory structure for a reason uh but even if it was just 12T tall or 14 ft tall actually 9 ft tall I can currently

touch can go underneath the wires I can currently touch the cable from Spectrum right now with if if I just go out in the middle of it where it's hanging I can reach and touch the Spectrum cable come across um and then the whole point of the 5- foot setback from the north property line is to push more of the structure into the existing hedro that had been overgrown for 20 30 plus years um to which there are plans to with with other neighbors to to clean that all up but obviously I'm not going to do that before the structure goes in place so it's more to utilize 20 ft of space that was an overgrown hrone can can you talk to the storage it's a two-story accessory structure um other than what has been written down which you know we talked about trailers and tractors and snowmobiles and what is the second floor because you're not walking those up the stairs no no no so uh my grandparents

have passed away in the last seven years and I have a lot of their stuff and my my parents at the same time want to give me more stuff and I I'm like I yes I want to keep that stuff but I don't I don't have room for it to store right now so that would just be and it's the second floor is a pull down stair it's not a permanent fixed Everyday Use it's just storage temporary you know to take stuff up and and add and store that stuff stuff that I'm not going up and down every day to to utilize it's not going to be a shovel or a lot more your the current house the the residence that doesn't have attic space does it because it's got the no barn roof it does not okay I'd like to pose a question for the basement we've heard that the neighbor across the streets in the flood way not just a flood plane but a flood way that's the mil Creek Water sha do you have it constantly running some pump is

your basement wet is it conducive to storage down there or I don't know the answer sry and no so uh so there is some storage but it's it's unfinished it's uh it it's the the point of this structure is to to get all the stuff that's currently Outside Inside and um and like I said I've got I've got three snowmobiles in my snowmobile trailer and you know yes I do use that for helping out friends moving their their stuff if they need to and it would be nice to get those out of the trailer into the the structure and then use that trailer for other things as I need I I would like to add one thing because it was brought up um I did not draw the architectural plans someone else did that and the plot plan was actually done by a surveying firm here in Webster McMahon laroo so he's put in the investment to actually find the monumentation at each of his property corners so this isn't just a guess of a plot plan these are actual monumented Corner points to know where his property boundaries are so he's put significant investment into that instead of just old

tape map surveys of measuring with dimension lines about where my my structure would go so he he's definitely very serious about um putting it in the right place making sure it's compliant and not having any issues this is also uh it is not a final print either it's that's the the general idea I haven't obviously finalized anything yes you you're talking about this document yes so obviously we have to we have to hit the 20 foot Mark and I haven't done any math on that I haven't had that conversation of do we hit that 20 foot uh High reement so that that'll definitely be met and uh there there will be some windows they're they're definitely going to be two doors and a and a garage door so out of curiosity uh cuz we're talking about vehicular storage um and then yep personal belongings up above yep um you have two two rooms on the first floor I do um what are the two two

rooms for that so I have to say that uh I I I have to put out here in front of everybody like the tools that I have personally no it's garden tools or that's fine just garden tools but I I have you know I I would like to have a little uh workbench work that that stuff so we're we're trying to get to the understanding of what this accessory structure is truly going to be used in the garage currently okay and I'd have to move things out of there to put my car in the garage currently so that's it's reworking things but uh this I think I can make this all happen with this structure like I said we're trying to understand okay the the use and the purpose and accessory structures a lot of times attic space yes um two spaces inside it starts to raise question as the what it's well so it's one one space is somewhat finished with uh plywood floor the other space is just Stone floor okay that's all so if you're given permission

to one of us I hate when it does it if if you're given permission to to um build the accessory structure currently there's a boat it looks like probably a an old car in the back plus the snowmobile trailer the the things that are perhaps eyes soures to the neighbors will those be able to be put inside the building and so the outside of the property will be cleaned up the car would be in the attached garage okay um the boat I don't know it it can fit in the accessory structure um it's designed that way so that the garage door is large enough to fit the boat in there in the winter okay um and if I have to get my truck in there to work on it then I can it everything can fit the way it's designed right now so the boat the tractor the um snowmobile trailer all that can fit in the snowmobile trailer cannot cannot Okay so where would that be stored Snowville

Trail yeah in the in the driveway or any yard yep it may be in my driveway you around am I around I'm here you're around oh yeah you may mention of not being able to be unfortunately I don't know the regulation how far off the overhead lines do you do does anybody here on the board know or do you guys know for our Genie yeah uh it's 5et 5T I have to maintain 5T from the it's a horizontal separation and a vertical separation y okay thank you so any anything attached on utility pole is 10 ft from utility pole to the house is 5 ft gotcha thank you and to point out utility polls in the back corner of the lot what's that

utility poll is in sorry the utility PO is in the back corner of the lot so that would be the uh North West corner it's actually shown on that plot plan uh as the two power poles so that's where as Brian said that would be 10t separation and then horizontally from the overhead power lines it's 5T as they go towards the house right the the diagonal is 5T yes and and and also pushing straight back if I can go back 5T if I'm 5T off the property line if I'm 15 I can maybe go back one or two feet was that was that statement clear to the board due to the diagonal of the lines if it's 5 ft off that North property line he can move it back further if he moves it to be more

compliant to the north property line that puts him closer to the diagonal so he can't move it back as far to maintain that buffer away from the prow lines yeah I'm just doing some real basic calculations here and it looks like you can move it um you can move it 10 ft closer to the house and if you move it 10 ft closer to the house you could probably move it 10 ft back just based on the dimensions that are given on on the plan that are provided understood that's inclusive of the overhangs cuz I think the that's inclusive of the diagonal overhead the one overhead no sorry the overhang of the buildings I'm not sure if those are depicted on the 20 by 20 he's referring to the one diagonal line that it's OHP yep yeah you're talking about the the eaves of the I'm saying Eaves and the SS of the EES are they look like they're about a foot so I mean my my little lines on on a 8 and 1 half by 11 aren't going to be exact as it is anyway so it looks like we could probably move it 10 ft closer to the house and 10 ft back again I don't have exact dimensions with me but

right just based on what I'm what I'm seeing it that looks like it is feasible and it would reduce one of the variances you'd need to ask for if you could set it 15 ft off the property line to the north that would be correct I would just caution to make sure that we give enough not to say what the predetermined decision is by the board but if it's granted we want to make sure to give a conservative estimate what the dimensions would be because we wouldn't want to come back to the board if we were off by a foot or two on the variance request so just want to make sure we're into that on the compromise of giting it so what I'm getting at is where you're saying moving it 10 ft each Direction uh both west and south we may want to go with 8T to give us 8T on each so that if those overhangs or the sofits do end up in such a fashion that when the building department does the inspection and finds out that the whole building we're at that I'm just stating it from experience then they would have then he would have to come back in for another understood um I'd almost propose that you guys show us what you what the you guys can do or say he's got to shrink it down a little bit to offset that right um the other question I have um 8 foot high um and

Adam to your point the the height is within code the size um within code although I will point out that the floor plan that is provided is actually larger than 20x 20 25 um because you're dimensions are from the center of the walls not to the exterior of the walls small technicality you said it's not completed um and you're still working on that so I'm assuming it will be 20 x 25 if you if the variance is granted um but as the 8 foot high and it's actually taller than 8 8ot in the second floor uh to the Eve is there is there a reason are you ad meable to something lower and again you're within Cod so it's more of just a question that that's all it was is um the original idea I had was I was told that it was considered an accessory structure so I said okay what can I what does an accessory structure mean sure here's here's what it gives me so what can I maximize exactly as long as I'm spending money I'm going to spend money yep um the just for your Dimensions the house

where the overhead power wires are attached MH is 23.3 Ft deep correct the proposed structure is 25 ft deep yeah I use the width of the structure at 20 ft is is the scale that I was using okay I just know that i' I physically put um little uh the driveway markers for the snow plow guys I've put those right in in different spots and I know that that the most if we're 15 ft off that property line mm the most I can go back is 3T okay so that's shifting that over that that definitely uh we again I'm just gain as much right not saying what I did is accurate I'm just just yeah I clarify that that uh yeah I appreciate that yep other questions from the board sorry so I um J can you pull up some of those photo I don't know if you still have the PowerPoint open while those are coming up I would

like to ask for the clarification are are is the zoning board proposing for us to amend our application to minimize this or maintain it as we presented it not that I'm asking what your vote are it's just up in the air of what the discussions have been had uh I would like to ask the question of Ryan of that of Shifting it to the um to lessen it from 5T to say 10t off the side or from the north lot line um and then once again if it does get shifted a few feet back that would minimi or not to say minimize I don't want to make it seem like it's set and stone but moving it so that it's not as close to the road and making it closer to compliance with being in the backyard even though there is no backyard on this corner lot I just my rough sketches using the 5ft side set back as my graph paper um I would think it could easily be 10 ft off of the North Lot line and moved back 10 ft from the front line of the building and still clear with plenty of Swing room cuz I know power

lines mhm do drape and swing in the wind um but I think that would absolutely fit I I I prefer to see5 just because then it eliminates one variance um but I also don't want to to cause an interference with the line so I don't without actually having having the cad tube in front of me I'm not sure I can do better than my sketch so so again I'm trying to stick half of the structure into an existing HED R correct that is the HED R is going to be maintained just not in the space where the structure is um so the idea is to minimize the footprint in the open space of the neighborhood that that was the reason pushing yeah no I I I understand I also maybe I misheard you it sounded like there's going to be some work being done to that hedge R in the future at some point in time whether that means reducing it whether that means uh maintaining it it and I can't tell you what to do with the Hedge R so at the

end of the day our focus is the accessory structure so I I understand the reason why you did it and I appreciate that um this middle photo of the items here what is going to be stored inside the uh accessory structure uh everything that's far away from the uh where the photo is taken so zoom in so you're saying everything to the right of the airst stram that the stuff that's in and around the shed currently okay so all the way over so all it looks like a a John Deere tractor maybe and there's wheelbarrow wheelbarrows fire pit so all of that will out of site and correct that will be cleaned up the C kaboto will or will not be uh in the it it may be okay can we get a definitive yes or no I think it's possible I think what he's saying is it's possible to park it in there but there might be times where he stores it on the driveway just like he's doing here this this actually was just a temporary thing while the was getting installed and cleaned up um since since

this picture the uh the drainage was actually finished on Saturday with grass seed and straw so it is yes waiting on grass to grow okay so yes that could be a you know that's a that's a half second picture right there that's understood right a picture is taken taken in time it's not a day to day yeah absolutely I I'm just I'm trying to get a a sense of how much of this is going to get cleaned up y um because if if we decide to move forward or how however we decide to move forward it's possible restrictions or highly likely restrictions will be placed so um we we want to just again I want to understand what can and what can't and what your intent was okay any any other questions you're quiet I agree with both you and the

chairman that uh based on the interest and well uh paid for survey shows that there's more room to move that shed both southernly and Western at least based on the drawing and doing the same exercise that both you and um that both you did I did as well and based on that it looks like there is room and once again we are not the in the position to tell people what to do if they want to ask for multiple variances I think the applicant can make it easier on themselves to eliminate at least one variance and then possibly be a even better neighbor and make the building more aesthetically pleasing but once again the plans do not show either of those conditions right right now so I my own personal opinion is if they really want to I'd like to see them respond to not only our concerns about the setback but their neighbors concern about the physical appearance of it even though I know they're in code that's kind of a I'm a nice guy I'm doing it I know we can't force them to add any type of architectural elements to make it look

less than a huge shed I mean I'm assuming it's not going to be t t111 on the outside of it just you know stained or something like that maybe it is and if it would they'd be well within the right to do that because it's not illegal but at least as far as the um drawings go I believe there's room and not living there he might be W they could have wild swings that we're unaware of MH that's not shown Illustrated well on the drawing right it's a line right it's it's a it's a 2d representative of of a real situation like I said I'd like to see it see if they can move it unless they're telling us you know if we offer the the the ability to come back and show us that great if they wanted to vote now then I say we we let them we we whatever the client whatever the applicant wants to do we can do I feel a lot more comfortable seeing if some of those issues were addressed rather than approve it subject to yeah I I know I agree with everything that you just said so I appreciate that um do you guys understand that yeah so I

was just going to give an analogy out of this if we could go back to the plot plan whoever's computer thank you so i' i' point to those overhead lines like a jump rope so the widest part is going to be the middle if if the wind is swinging it so if we swing it and as Brian said it's it's 9 ft from the ground and those power poles are usually 25 to 35 ft tall so therefore you have from the very top 35 ft I'll call it 25 ft since it's residential then you've got power lines then you've got telecommunications then you've got the phone lines so on this one he's saying Spectrum which is going to be telecommunication so that's going to be your middle tier not the bottom tier of that rental pole so we'll call it 6 feet down so now you're from 25 to 19 ft you're 9 ft off the ground for the lowest or the Telecom one so that thing might be sagging about 6 feet so therefore when the wind whips it like a jump rope you're going to have that 6ot dip is going to go sideways and then add 5 ft onto that so we're going to say that from this line in the middle point it can go diagonally to the Northeast 11 ft is that a fair enough analogy to explain what happens with the if you were to offset a line 11 ft to the

northeast of that that would be where you'd want to place the corner of that shed correct that's exactly what I was going to say is the southwest corner of the shed that would be the closest we would go so if we offset that 11 ft that's reasonable I I just saying I think that brings it up if if the applicant so desires they can make it easier on themselves by eliminating one of the variances they're asking for which makes it agreed you know a little not easier on us but you're asking for Less relief correct which makes it understand an application to to review and approve that's all I'm saying y so obviously you could do whatever they you feel is in your best interest agreed um understood on that one so I I don't have an architect scale as as accurate as Mr Schwarz is oh mine's just on a piece of paper that's all I'm trying to do too um so so I I do estimate that it could be moved back about 8 feet um back to the West um and to the South let me ask a question yes um and and it's entirely up to you I mean we the the board can arbitrarily guess based on our very inaccurate y rough estimates um or

would you perhaps I guess there's two things I'd like to see um if if you were to table this to the next meeting and go back and actually do real measurements as opposed to our you know blind Dart um how far back could the building be if you maintain the 5T side setback yep and then if I maintain a 15t side setback how far back could it be okay and then I know someplace within that window it's it's not going to get wrapped up in the utility wires but still be less less of an imposition on the code and less of an imposition on the neighbors okay uh I can speak with that after that I I do have to voice out the frustration he was here last month and due to the town's failure to publicly notice it he's already lost one month of time I'm not saying that to try and sway it's just I want to make sure to voice his frustration that he has time and money invested in this and now he's going to possibly lose a month I just want to point that out uh because I don't have all the tools here to measure all that out on this one um but I'll pose it to Brian to see if he wants to hold off to get that more accurate to

see how far we can get it so so meaning you don't get a decision to tonight because if they vote and you say no you you're done I'm okay with that as long as what are you looking for as far as measurements who who can provide the measurements to you that you'll accept I well my my window is because I don't I can't give you an accurate measurement as to where it it now becomes a danger to you and your family do do I need to go back to uh mcmah laroo and have that drawn those that drawn to scale in certain places I don't think so I think you would be comfortable with say myself depicting them on this with the dimension line absolutely you're a PE I'm assuming that you can do do that math without yep not only do the math I can also depict it up yeah well no but that's that's what we're really looking for to see the application you have at right now to see how much you can get away from the north property line yep and how far if if you can get it back to the W to the West that's all we're to see and then if he

feels it's something that he can live with submit it and say Here's where it is excuse me but also once again excuse me just so we can see and everyone is aware of it because I agree with you if you say it's 6 feet you basically you want to be 11t like we said before 11 ft off and then you move that where you think it it works and then you know we'll be in I think a much better position to to feel comfortable bringing it to a vote unless like I said he wants to do that this evening yeah so as on this on this survey we'll have the north suck back at 5 ft in as far back as we can go yep and then we'll bring it right up to the 15t set back far back far back go and we'll show lines with the offset to the overhead lines depicting why we picked those two places that would be that's ex that would be really good to help us make an informed decision and I think it's going to be it'll lessen the amount of variants you're asking for so I think on behalf of my friend and and the applicant he's asking the

board to table this until next month pending this additional information to be provided thank you council did I say that open yeah thanks Adam I'm not as familiar the Public Public comment dis closed at this point so when when we come back next month you'll have an opportunity to speak again to speak again and to talk about other contingencies on the property like screening or whether the garage open on no um all those those are those are matters that would typically go before the planning board but they those are matters that would go before the planning board but those issues given the size of the structure it's not required to go before the planning board for the zoning board is going to consider just the setbacks that have been discussed okay so then this goes to the planning board no it will not go to the planning board because the overall size of the structure doesn't require it to even though it would create a significant change to the neighborhood correct that those criteria are strictly surround ing the setback variances that are being sought okay so like I just add last time I was here there was a 10ft fence that you all were having a

lot of conversation about how block views and and that they would have the screening put up onto the fence so that you know people were looking at this can can we put those types of requirements in in terms of screening because is twice 10t and 20 ft this way they said you're talking about I realize there's money invested but I have 32 years of investment in my property and that needs to be paid in account this will definitely decrease the um Salk appeal of my house and that is significant there are other places on the property that could ma'am ma'am there will be a public hearing next meeting in which you can voice those concerns again for the board yes okay yes yes you'll have an opportunity to speak then too I don't have anything else to add just thank the board all your discussion do we have to vote on yeah so I make a motion to table uh 671 Willow Lane accessory structure um till the next board meeting second second go ahead do you want to call out or no that's fine all those in favor I I can I ask one

more question question well I when I visited the property I did not look at swinging power lines I was looking at the ground and um when you come up with those two Footprints if you could let Josh know and and stick some of the the flags in the ground and then when I come back then I can actually see it so you're saying sticks in the ground of where the proposed would be so that it's visual yeah like to tell he's able to do that if it's yeah if it's possible if it's not yep I it just makes it easier I mean it's different looking at it on plan than it is in the space itself I'll see how many Stakes he has we might do different colors to show the two different locations so then you can see what the difference is just Mark if just like I said the back corner of each yeah sorry all right now I'm done next meeting is is June 11th okay so do you think you'll be able to get that material in at least a week ahead of time absolutely thank you and actually do you want it more than a week ahead of time that'd be great you can do that more do that thank you all right thank

you all for the time and the discussion thank you good luck thank you gentlemen next matter um no idea me get all right ready ready 1246 Stafford Crescent garage Edition located at 1246 Stafford Crescent applicant Bob Peters is requesting area variances to allow a front and side setback less than what is required associated with the construction of a 245t third Bay extension to an existing two-car garage on a41 acre parcel having SPL number d360 located in an R3 single family residential district under section 350-12 of the code of the town of Webster hello how's it going good good um I'm here to acquire a couple variances uh build a 245t addition to our 2 Bay garage to allow us a little more room to park some cars inside instead of

outside um we need two variances we need one on the west side it's a 15t variance there we need to be 9t closer and then in order to get the depth in the back we need to come towards the road which is a variance of 50 foot we going to be in 4 4T into that which is 46 ft from that front setb and other than that it's um I don't know if you got pictures there but I did hand in pictures of what it's going to look like it's it sets right into the house itself it's um it's a beautiful rendition I have an architect that's put it together for me um there were a couple things that I had to deal with with Monroe County Water Authority there's a water main going right up through there um so I called them and I settled that out and I I got them to put together a license for to build over on into their easement area as long as I maintain so I have that license for that side of it so really all I'm looking for is the variance from the road which is a 4 foot and then on the uh West Side I'm looking to be closer to that lot line I can't go back any further because we have the

houses set up where the kitchen's there and the windows are there so I can't go back to bring it back but I need that 26 F feet to be able to have the garage door go up because I'm going to have two-car lift in there to store some of my older cars so um one question I have so the um Water Authority indicates that um the additions footer may not extend into the easement area however on this plan if I'm reading it correctly uh the easement is 10 ft off your property line it looks like you're building within 9 ft so you're you're going to be within and the Footers are going to be within the easement and that contradicts what the email indicates yeah I think um not quite sure exactly the footage there uh I I wanted to get something from them just in case it did build on to it and what what they were concerned about is the the overhang on the building they said the overhang may be over the line even though the footer is is there but my overhang is going to go over so that the 9 foot is the overhang

distance or the footer no n 9 foot is the footer so there's going to be a 12 in overhang on into their property there their easement so I wanted to get that license from them to make sure everything was fine I the email reads Bob that is correct the additions footer may not extend into the easement area the roof overhang May extended to the easan area so what is presented to us right now does not comply with the Water Authority yeah you're right that that that has been overcome I've got another email that I can give to you from them with the license and everything that I have uh giving me permission to go on to their easement so I mean for me without having that I can't I wouldn't move forward with with the license that I've got here that explains that work their license to me from the Monro County Water Authority I have it here that explains how I can go on to it that that would be helpful mean I haven't had a chance to review that so am I missing if you'd like a copy of that I can give that to you please

yeah this is sh temp with Sketch he's got 18 ft- 135 is [Music] 5T [Music] Miss that's question I believe the additional footage is state is in there so talk to me um while we review that um I was at your property a couple hours ago uh took a took a walk around um I think you started to um and maybe you said it um the reason the garage cannot or the addition cannot be pushed

back before four fet is is y again well it's a personal preference more than anything we have a patio back there we have kitchen windows that kind of stick out we'd have to revamp the whole house structure and everything and it's not feasible financially to do that well all that is all that's on the two-story house portion not on the garage so the addition of the garage would actually not affect any of that you'd have a I think that's it call it a a a 12T um Courtyard if you will um in that particular area so I don't know if it would require any reconfiguration of the main house um well there's it's just not going to work out to take it back if I have to go backwards I'm not going to do it we're not going to take the structure of the house and upset it to have that garage stick back it's just not feasible okay I have a picture I don't know if you have the picture in there I have a drawing of what it looks like from the architect on the road this one yes yes and I went around to quite a

few of the neighbors not just the side neighbors but eight neighbors and explained to them what we were doing and they were all all 100% for it Mr Peters do you have a a copy of the license agreement application that you submitted to the Water Authority all signed you mean by everybody uh the the application that you would have submitted just detailing the proposed encroachment um I don't think I have that I I worked with um Todd Ferguson at Monroe County water authority and he's the one who put these papers together one of the things that we found out when I went to the Water Authority because I knew the main was there is that they did not have a recorded easement with you guys with Webster it was never recorded when they put the main through so I brought that up and they found that so I had to sign a paper about the easement so now there's a legal easement there and then when I got a little Leary about encroaching onto the side or into their easement that's when we talked about a license and they came over over and looked at it and they said no

problem and then I got the uh license that you see there yeah and and I did drive around your your neighborhood as well and uh you know there's a couple with three car garages and the side easements um this is this would be the first one that is trying to move forward beyond the the 50 Foot setback yeah other questions from the board application yeah so Mr Peters the reason why I you had to copy the application cuz obviously we have the email in which the Water Authority indicated that the Footers could not encroach on the easement and I I do see the license agreement it does permit a foot and a half encroachment but it doesn't distinguish between the Footers and the the overhang okay and that's why I was asking to see what you submitted to to

uh as part of this license I see what you're saying yeah yeah it is the it is the Footers and and then I don't have the finalized print yet I did this 10 years ago I had the print all drawn up and then I decided not to do it and now I decided to bring it back and so I had it I'm having it redrawn again and it's not finalized yet but I have had discussion with the architect and he's done some prints for us here and um I have to have at least I'm going to go out 9 ft from my original structure that's what I need to be able to do what I'm doing so I'm at the edge of the Footers or is that the I'm going 9t from the footer that's currently there 9t West I had a Stak but I took the stakes up but um so that's what I'm going but then there's an overhang of I think it's 14 in on on the eaves so that that would be 10 ft so that that would go on to the easement from the Water Authority that's why I did the license with them so the 9t includes the Footers correct yeah and then you have an additional 14 in for the overhang so that would exceed the foot and a half that's permitted under the license agreement though that's not typically how a building is constructed uh your your

overhang itself would not your overhang May extend beyond what the Footers are your Footers are probably going to be I had to guess 24 in wide so 12 in beyond the 9 foot that would put you at um you know if it's 9 ft you know you'd be at uh if the building was 9t your footer will extend another foot beyond that and your overhang isn't beyond the footer your overhang is Off the Wall itself so so it's still within the foot and a half of the it could be right without having actual documents and actual drawings I can't determine that but it could be I'm I'm going to stay in my lane and and just be mindful of the the foot and a half that absolutely and it's you know and I appreciate that because at the end of the day U without having you know the drawings we have or at least that I have don't have um dimensions for the overhangs they don't have dimensions for the Footers there's a lot of information here that I don't have that I personally would not feel comfortable making a judgment on um you know and for me I

definitely want to get we have the license agreement which is dat the 12th I have an email that contradicts the licensing agreement that was before um that was sent before the the licensing agreement I me personally I want that all cleared up before so what what what are you looking for are you looking for the verbiage and the license agreement from the Water Authority so you sent an application into the water authority correct this wasn't really a application it was just our conversations together they were very lenient very cons consider it and they even said if you wanted to go more than a foot and a half they would come back and rewrite it they were very if they can rewrite it for you stating specifically that the footer can extend into that easement whatever it needs to be and you were to resubmit that I think is what I'm not trying to talk speak for you Mike no it if we I mean was there an email after was it April I I do have emails yeah so if there's an if there's an email after April 1 that corresponds more closely to the licensing agreement that indicates that the footer the overhang is able to extend 1 and 1/2 ft

Beyond the Edge of the easement okay that would help me tremendously yeah I do have that um if you don't have that if you can get that that would that would also help me tremendously um so that that's the side easement part we also have the front I don't know if anybody has questions on the front easan Ean or setback sorry setback yeah okay thank you I I think it it's he's trying to keep the area behind uh his house with the windows the way they are and you know it's just the way the house is laid out now and I don't think it's a a major issue as far as the the front setback period well and I think it gives some Dimension right we typically don't like a flat wall all the way across because it just um breaking it up tends to make it look more less impactful and the roof line will do that too the new roof line with the addition as well so I I don't I don't have any issue with the front setback variant okay did we do the public caring yet we did not open up to the public um

is there any anybody in the audience that uh would like to speak for or against um this application bring it back to the board um I'm proposing that that um with your your approval I propose that we table this until we get the additional information um and we can meet uh again uh as it June 11th to uh to discuss the matter uh with the addition information okay so I can get that and and send it into Catherine all right are you are you good with that well no but I'll do whatever you know I want to well the problem I have and you know how it is I have Builders set up at certain dates and nowadays with contractors if I miss the threshold I may not get it going the option is we can vote vote on it it's good to set that up would it be possible if I if we if you approved it I can just send this information to you tomorrow the email and you have it so I don't have to wait 30 days and another 30 days and I don't even know if I can get the contractor now that I got to set it back another 30 days I can tell you I'm not personally comfortable with it I don't

know we have in the past depending on the circumstance but so so it would be approved contingent upon receiving this letter with importantly are we in any type of uh violation of not respecting R County Water Authority or is it the applicant's duty to make sure he's in compliance with monor County Water Authority easement uh that's the applicant's responsibility but but still not a a road that the town would want to go no that's what I'm I'm saying I mean we could but why set us ourselves up for any potential issues down the road is what I'm saying and that's my fear is because it's it's not like I'm waiting on something that's under Town control it's it's another entity that I'm I I have no feeling for the Water Authority knowing what they would or wouldn't rule otherwise I I I believe there he he's going to get it it's just a matter of of timing but once again my feeling as a personally I I I don't have an is with it but I think from a legal standpoint

it's not in our best interest to do it subject to so then I'm I'm suggesting that we table it until June 11th at this point um I'm going to make a motion to table uh 1246 Stafford Crescent garage Edition until uh next board meeting and on June 11th second all those in favor I I thank you1 ready for the next one yep okay 663 finching field Lane shed located at 663 finchingfield Lane applicant Jeremy Maas is requesting an area variance to allow the construction of an 8X 12T storage shed placed in a wooded area beyond the boundary of the line created by the outer wall of the of the side of the house on a 38 acre parcel giving number

1-87 located in an R3 single family residential district under Section 350-12 and 35-36 of the code of the town of web uh good evening Jeremy Maas here I uh own the home at 663 ping field Lane um as the agenda in indicates um I I would like to build a shed on my property um our property you can see from the uh survey is a rather unique shape um the house is angled so the backyard is rather small um um we want to be able to put our cars in the garage um we have two children who have a bunch of stuff I expect the amount of stuff to increase uh so I think we could really benefit from uh the use of the storage shed uh I'd like to maximize the backyard area for U my children to to play we have a play set back there right now um there's not a lot of space that could accommodate a shed back there if I did put one back there it would allow for very minimal kind of play area so um because of that

I I was looking outside of the outer walls of the house um as indicated on the agenda there is a wooded area um with kind of just the right size for this uh size of shed um requires an area variance because it's it's not directly behind the house um so that's that's a basis for the application uh um I did talk to most of my neighbors around uh the area and everyone I talked to is is okay with it um so I welcome whatever questions the board or anyone has so I drove by earlier today is it going in the woods I I wasn't based on this and what's out there I wasn't really sure physically where it's going uh so the there were uh there were stakes in the ground it's kind of um let's see Josh are you able to pull up the pictures that I believe I included with the submission I think the board members have hard copies I don't have them we do um so if you see the I believe the play that is in the picture um and then the the woods essentially um creates a line

um there's a fence along that it's a it's like a metal kind of um almost chicken wire type fence to keep our small dog in the backyard um it would be right along that fence um so it's not well into the woods it's right on the border of the woods and on the edge of the woods if you ex thank you yeah perfect that's what I wasn't able to determine why I was out there sure so it's kind of in the corner of where this photo is kind of in the corner where that fence is um I'm sorry I don't know what photo you're you're looking at it's the one with the uh chimney looking toward the play set okay and you said you the question was there's a fence that goes from the house to the woods and then back down along the woods correct the shed would be at least when I was looking at I I thought the sh would be close to the corner of that fence that's correct okay all right and we do have a couple of letters of

support y [Music] from 662 which is across the street looking at it and 66 668 which is also the house that will be most directly looking at it um aside from the neighbor immediately next door but I think maybe the tree row will [Music] and okay and then I don't know the number um the the house number of the property uh AB buding just to the east who shares that boundary line um his name is Matt soyi he did um he intended to send me an email before my submission but uh I didn't receive any email until after the submission he did end up sending me a similar email you have that email um I didn't print out copies of it you're in possession of it whether it's digitally or can you send that over to Josh as well sure okay any other questions from the

board no uh open to the public anybody want to speak for or against the project all right um bring it back to the board any any additional questions or comments good no no I'm going to move a bunch of stuff here so I can get to my papers so I can do the Seeker um like to make a motion for a type two action under Seeker pursuant to nycrr section [Music] 617.980.9025 application um presents any type of uh undesirable change to the character of the neighborhood as it is uh based on the shape of the lot and uh the way he needs to use the lot I don't

think there's any really other remedy to allow his kids to play and for the shed location I don't think uh the uh various requested is significant and uh although it's self-created because he wants to keep the back air for the uh for the kids to plan I don't believe it's uh a significant uh request to ask okay I guess I would add um just to make sure that it's noted in the minutes that it's not even a corner lot it's a curve corner lot so the most of the usable space of the lot is actually the north sidey yard so um the backyard is minuscule and I don't know that it actually would fit well in the backyard and meat code thank you anybody else all right with that um like to make a motion for 663 finchfield Lane shed um at applicant uh Jeremy Maas is requesting an area

variance to allow the construction of an 8x12 storage shed placed in a wooded area beyond the boundary line created by the outer wall of the side of the house on a 0.38 acre parcel having SPL uh number 06513 d187 located in R3 single family residential district under Section 350-12 and 35-36 of the town uh codee of the town of Webster second second Mr short hi Mrs wo hi Mr lagner hi Mr CA hi Mr Smith hi thank you you have your variance you have uh one one year to complete the project and obtain all necessary uh building permit thank you ladies and gentlemen of the board thank you

right is up for the next one y 941 Gravel Road special use permit SL major home occupation review located at 9 41 graa Road the town of Webster zoning board of appeals is requesting a review of the special use permit and approval conditions to conduct a major home occupation associated with the landscaping and excavation business and a 2.09 acre parcel having number 07816 D1 d1.1 located in R3 single family residential district under Section 350-10 3F of the code of the town of Webster hi my name is Kevin Fior I'm good friends with uh Bill and Timmy and I'm here assisting them this evening good evening folks how it going good great Andy um so would would you like me to give you like a brief history of the the property in the special use permit and the length of time I think that the the code

enforcement officer has a a presentation prepared and can address the issue of the property correct that is correct I would suggest that the code enforcement officer give the presentation and then you have an opportunity to to respond ladies and gentlemen board and those in attendance my name is Jim Montgomery I am the co- compliance coordinator for the town and uh we're going to be going over a little bit of the violations that B on the property that strictly involve the special use um permit them scamed by this 4 years ago um those violations include 35044 C parking Vehicles 350 44d parking of commercial vehicles 2011 3B dumping 26924 operation outside of special use limitations and 35037 a2g display of goods and materials to start um I want you look at the picture uh on the left side of the screen this is a violation of 35044 C parking commercial vehicles no commercial vehicle having the overall length in excess of 21 ft or any uh semi-tractor trailer or semi-trailer of any length shall be parked on any public or private property in the residential in the residential district unless temporarily in connection with the uh permitted commercial or construction

service sale or delivery of such a property this next slide shows um I believe to be 250 attached to a commercial trailer which is a violation of 35 350 44d parking of commercial vehicles a commercial vehicle which is not a semi-tractor trailer or semitrailer or construction vehicle having any overall length of 21 ft or less may be parked outside of unproper property in a residential district subject to the following conditions only one such vehicle may be parked and a lock containing the dwelling of the resident vehicle owner or operator such vehicle shall be parked on the driveway or in the garage this vehicle is over 25 or 21 ft um next we're going to go over dumping uh as you can see in the on the image to the right there's active uh dump truck dumping out to the property um where no building permit has been issued no dumping for purposes of filling or establishing grade shall be done unless the owner of the property to be filled shall be um shall have been issued a permit therefore by the town board as here in provided um so this is uh going over the special use permit that was granted

Again by this board um these are the conditions that were provided in 2011 um I can go over each one of them applicant must obtain all necessary government permits including Town board permit number two is completion of the construction must occur prior to June 12th 2012 the applicant must return before the zoning board um in 6 months to show compliance of conditions number four the applicant must beat the requirements of 225 3782 which should be noted that this code section has been changed um in the recent years will be met by the applicant to eliminate outside storage or parking of commercial vehicles which includes the bobcat and chipper with the construction of the barn two employees who are not residing on the premises which is not normally permitted those two employees will be allowed on the condition that they do not actually work on the premises but just pick up Vehicles number six says that full-time employees will not perform form maintenance of equipment on the premises number seven the applicant will comply with all of 225 3782 again which that town code is changed of the town code planning board approval is required so now we're going to go over um the violations that I have observed on the property this is a violation of condition number four which states the applicant must meet the requirements of 225 37a 2 and a and g be M applicant um

it says that specifically the Bobcat cannot be uh on the premises um nor can other commercial equipment so on the right you can see clearly there's a bobcat on the property and on the left you can see a backhoe and and a uh dump truck um this next is a video showing two employees who are or two people who are actively shoveling um materials into a truck Play that video I don't they they actively shovel into the truck for the next minute and a half I don't think we need to go that is a commercial vehicle uh excuse me a commercial a commercial vehicle yes thank [Music] you no to um 350 3782 is display of goods and materials this is not um this is a general condition not a specific condition that the board set but this is a General condition in our town code says there show be no exterior display or storage of goods materials and Equipment inventory um as you can see clearly there are all those uh in the pictures

provided um again going further in you can see these materials shown in the picture I've circled and red and then the equipment shown and then the materials as well there's bags of concrete and then uh a large pile of gravel on the right and I again just want to everyone who's in tenants today and um those who are watching and the board to know that this board has the power to um revocate this special use permit and by reading the two paragraphs it goes into details that this that is the power that this board has thank you appreciate it well uh can I ask a question now sorry what was that could I ask a question you can ask a question sure which newspaper was the notice published in 10 days prior I'm just curial Webster heral okay okay so can I address the complaints please okay the two main complaints in uh Jim can tell me if I'm incorrect is one the outside storage of equipment which is supposed to be [Music]

Undercover are you asking your question yes yes the materials and Equipment are both supposed to be with under cover within a building right okay okay so uh whenever I mean Tim has addressed every time there was a complaint he addressed it he's never been to court because he refused to put his equipment undercover or remove any stored materials so are you saying that we need to we need to bring bring that to Tim I mean Tim just complying with this without us I have question cuz when the permit was granted for us storage of equipment is to be done at night this is during the day I mean all my equipment's been stored in the barn at night I mean that's not part of the from what I recall reading that's not what the um the condition the conditions of it was to start in the barn at night it

was to be stored in the barn so when I come back to eat lunch or something it needs to be parked in the barn I didn't realize that that's my I apologize about there so so the only point that I'm making is that all of the uh citations or complaints have to do with either dirt stone or uh his equipment not being in a building well I think I saw pictures of uh concrete and morar and uhing and other components as well bags I bought set there cuz I was redoing the fence I do have a permit for but I was told that the one neighbor was going to put up another fence 10 foot fence M so I stopped progress of reinstalling fence so that's what the concrete was there for yeah if I mean it's still it's still a residence yep okay so if he has 10 bags of concrete it doesn't automatically dictate that it's for his his business it could be for his resident IAL youth okay I'm making a claim one way or the

other I I don't reside there okay um but my point is that that every time he's been cited he's been more than Cooperative it immediately addressed the situation it it which is why he he's never ended up in court am am I that's incorrect he has been in court no he hav you adjourned everything you still were in court you showed up to court you were you were issued an appearance ticket okay okay he he's been issued an appearance ticket and when he went to court it was adjourned it was adjourn yes it was a Jour okay okay I'm sorry I stand I stand correctly also with the stone JY I thought you said Stone was fine on the property I said that if you were going to be using it immediately to redo your area your perious surface then it was fine but it's been staying there for years you said the stone was fine so that's fine it's being used now for grading the property when was it being used uh I got trees coming down we meeting Mr

Stevens's request to two to one slope for the property line so is it being used now or is it are coming down tomorrow so once they're down yes it's been too wet we haven't had good weather as everybody knows it's been too wet you can't get back there unless you're going to make a mess okay um other questions and comments from the board that I'm going to open it up to um the public anybody want to speak for or against um this property okay I can see okay please state your name and your address yes Sandra pza 937 gravel road so we're the neighbors right next door we have no issues okay thank you 93 you said 937 okay y37 thank you we'll see we'll see support uh Joe beer uh Brig or Major General in the National

Guard liveed right next door no issues uh they not a problem at all with that property uh no noise issues it's don't see any curbside issues of appeal uh I support them continuing what they're doing they're making an honest living thanks what address 955 TR Road right on the property okay you you'll get your turn Jonathan Bernard 951 Gravel Road uh in the images that were taken of Mr bester's backyard I'm the greenhouse that you can see physically uh in the backyard there so I have direct line of sight uh in that area as far as my concerns Tim has been good about taking care of the general area um I have been there since 2013 and have had no issue with him working back there uh his time that he spent uh caring for that yard he's done what he can obviously to maintain his business and also maintain the view that we have of his property even going so far as to invest in uh building the property line the BM that's on our side obviously putting in the arbes in there in order to help with the visibility on that side uh I believe that he's done his part to work well as

a good neighbor in this one and I'm in support of him thank you uh my name is John Barry I live at 949 Gravel Road I've been a resident in reper for 39 plus years and uh I have known the bers uh for 20 plus years as my neighbor I saw them when they moved in before they had kids um I recognized that he was a young married couple they were young married couple um very hardworking I would see him leave in the morning and not get back until dark Around the Clock seven days a week um I know he's had a few different uh opportunities to work in other fields um I happen to uh bring him to my place of employment to try to get a job when he was in between jobs uh I I know he worked for Mr Fior and um I know he struggled for a good many years as a uh self-employed businessman and uh I'm happy to see that

uh he has improved his uh business and I don't find a problem with him having a business and I look right at his yard I look at his barn it's a well-kept piece of property um he has as Jonathan said put burms with our bites up to hide some of the um businesses that he has I know he's complied with other Town issues by building a shed behind his barn uh at a pretty good cost of money and um I can tell you from the years that I've known him if there's anything that I asked him to do he would do it um he plows our road uh sometimes we don't even see a contract we pay him he doesn't even come looking for the money we pay him uh as he does uh our driveways and our private road um I've noticed through the years of being his neighbor that he's been associated with K9 orphans as an uh a foster home taking dogs in

uh two of which are now his personal dogs I know that he's had um uh a relative move in with him that uh he's taken care of and I know there people that have come here tonight to support him are doing that because he's been good to them as a neighbor and has helped them as well as he's helped me so um I couldn't ask for a better neighbor I'm 73 years old I've had a lot of neighbors and I would say that this is probably one of the best neighbors I've had and a nice family thank you thank you hi um my name is Alex lone and this is my husband Nathan core we live at 541 Galo Circle so unfortunately we've had a different experience um we are on the opposite side of um the property as the greenhouse in the back so I've included some photos we moved in in what September of 2021 2021 um so I've

included some photos throughout the years um I don't know if you can zoom in on that photo um but it shows two recreational trailers a dump truck another dump truck to the side um with it to like it's Fed Up um and then there's also a truck in the back and that was stored during winter time behind our fence um so the problem most used for us used to only really be in the winter time as far as being able to like physically see it um so I included another photo um so that's what it used to look like in the summertime um that is in August of 2023 so there were some trees that would fill in um and un fortunately that tree coverage has changed um if you go to the next photo so that is in November of 2023 so a lot of the uh trees were cleared and unfortunately um there were three different trailers or four different trailers that were stored um in that big open area and then you can see the dump truck sitting out there as well so and to my knowledge um I believe the neighbor was notified that they couldn't store recreational vehicles back in October by JY um I don't know if you can confirm that that is correct I can't confirm the date but yes yeah so that's

in November if you go to the next picture um that's later um in November showing like three different trucks parked back there if you zoom in you can also see um the trailer um with the equipment on it um if you go to the next picture this is in December um the recreational trailers are still there you can see more equipment outside um I will note I'm not sure of the duration that the equipment is staying there um but it is and this isn't an every single day occurrence where there's equipment out there but there are times when there is equipment out there so this happens to be one of them if you go to the next photo that is in February the recreational trailers still haven't moved um you also see two trucks one truck with a trailer attached to it and then if you go to the next photo this is in March and you still see the recreational trailers so unfortunately I unfortunately um if you know he was notified back in the fall and then these recreational trailers sat there for almost 6 months I'm not really seeing that as a timely solution um and I think the biggest thing for us um like I said this is our backyard view this is the view from my office this is the view from our kitchen this is the view of our backyard so um unfortunately we just

have a different perspective than the other neighbors yeah the way our house is set up we spent 99% of our time in the back looking out towards this yeah um so the other thing too uh as far as our understanding from the original special use is that the property needed to be maintained um I understand it's other neighbors experience where it has been unfortunately for us um we are looking at something that hasn't been M maintained um that stone pile for example has been sitting out there at least for 2 years if not longer like I said we moved in in 2021 um we are just looking for some sort of solution to be able to enjoy where we live um I guess so um we were here last month for an application for a 10-ft fence um to try to block some of this um our property is significantly lower um than our neighbor's property so that's why we asked for the 10 foot um it's still not going to be able to block everything that was really the only thing we thought to do in our power um we got a quote for that fence it was close to $111,000 um so that's an expense that we don't want to do but it might be

something that we have to do if um you know this is going to occur I don't know if you want to yeah just based on reading the original uh agenda or the meeting minutes from the special use permit just based on the amount of variances that are required to use this property in the way that they're trying to use it it's obvious that it's way too big for it's business is too big for the residential area that we're currently in yeah and I also think too one of our concerns is um you know what happens I guess after however you guys vote however this is over um like how is it going to be enforced because I think the biggest question for us is it hasn't been enforced and there have been considerate violations of it and um we appreciate you guys you know rehearing this now but I just did not sure how to move forward with it and then you know if things are in violation how it would be addressed so unfortunately we cannot be in support for it um we don't know you guys personally we've only really talked to you guys twice um but we do we do apologize it's just unfortunately the way our property is it just um it just doesn't work for us so so quick question so based on that last exchange it doesn't sound like you've addressed the issues directly with um the the owners

at 941 gravel nope we have talked to them so they've never talk to us either so we as far as like if they're going to store stuff up but um they came to our front door once and asked us if um we were okay with the recreation of vehicles we said no um and then I talked to um the neighbor one other time when they were taking down the fence to ask them what his plan was with the fence and that's when I said okay we might try to pursue because he said that he was going to reput up the existing fence on the lower portion directly on the um property line which would have given us basically like no coverage that's why um I said that we were going to seek a taller fence um which I told him that's the only time we've ever talked to them okay I appreciate it y um and Josh to answer your question how do we how do we enforce I at the end of the day we don't know it's an issue until somebody tells us right so it it needs to come back through Josh and Jim and the town for us to be able to do much R through yeah I think our what Alex was saying her point is that it shouldn't be on us to make the neighbor comp with the rules that accept for for no but it it is on you to let us know that is an issue yeah we get that yeah which we definitely get um I think the other thing too just to kind of close this out is to kind of really take

a look at these pictures and ask yourself if this is something you would want to look at day in and day out um for months and months and months and ask yourself how you'd be able to enjoy your property how you'd potentially be able to sell your property if you were going to put it on the market um so I just think there's a lot to consider um so yeah I appreciate your time and and everything so thank you appreciate it yeah thank you uh I'll let you respond after all the public comment is is done good evening uh Kim Jenkins and Ola phoro We Live at 545 gal bro Circle and uh we are directly behind uh the portion of this property that has the most heinous I would say of things going on um so the property uh Olga's owned the property since 1998 um and when she bought it it was a premium lot because right behind her was all Woods there was nothing else back there um so at that time it was premium and now our property value we both sell real estate for a

living so so the property value is diminished immensely because of what now we have to look at behind the property um and it is absolutely untrue that all of those things are only out during the daytime they are there all night long but obviously we can't take a picture at night because it's not going to show up um but it is absolutely not true that they are late night though um and we have the original uh notes from the public hearing for uh the special use permit we're asking tonight that that be revoked because it is it is really a difficult situation for us to deal with um we Olga has had contact with a neighbor in terms of like for instance a tree that was on his property fell and caused of $40,000 Insurance claim um against the property and she asked him to do something about it he did absolutely nothing um there was another tree that fell a few months prior to that uh onto the property she asked him to move that he said he would he never did we had to cut it up and get rid of it and we have text messages proving all of that um but just literally today uh the Bobcat is not actually pushed into the shed like it should be it's out from so even today as he sits here it's not

where it's supposed to be um there in the original permit it says um that there can be no outstanding viol ations in order for this to be here and that the occupancy is operated in such a manner that it does not disturb surrounding residential Community um and all of the business that goes on here disturbs completely the residential Community the people that live up on gravel road um that spoke in support it his property looks nice from Gravel Road it it really does and those are the neighbors that are here speaking it's those of us who are behind that are the most impacted by all of this that are here asking this to be revoked um should we some yeah we did bring I mean there's there's videos of him operating I think just kind of early in the morning 6 6:09 a.m. like so I see you have a lot of YouTube videos they're all short like I I made sure to keep them they're not minutes long they're all few as I was going to say if we can pick one or two that are most representative you know which they are right um let me like the don't the very m is like but the where is the oh the

the start is before 7:30 in the morning that one nice for us to wake up to there was some 6:00 oh I don't know if it's on there or not no there's it's there there's one from 6 a the first one oh the first one okay then let's do that the first sorry yeah okay go ahead which one yeah the early morning ones those are the yeah so the first one maybe okay hear anything backup noise volume go up anymore on no it's okay I mean there there's there's a good one of like the dump tru being you know slammed around that that is a good one so I I assume this is not you know something that's supposed to be allowed as a storing of the vehicles and from what we understand I was supposed to be only driving them in and out and parking in in the in the structure which obviously is not what's happening and this is the noise all that we hear all

the time not to mention the diesel fumes like it's impossible to clean that side of the house clean um the windows because all the debris and um you know like I I try to open the window and enjoy the lilx that I have planted instead all I smell is is diesel fuel and all of that noise and in addition in the original paperwork here it says no business activities are conducted on site with the exception of office bookkeeping so literally only things inside of the house are supposed to be conducted for the business and it's clear that he's operating the business outside um feel like and also like all all all the debris that he is bringing from his jobs is getting bu and in further down but that's from Alex's view um uh in in the pictures you'll be able to see all the debrises that now especially as the rains have come through the uh the spring just how much wash out happened and all the asphalt and all the debris and all the concrete that got filed up there yeah it's hard packed so it doesn't absorb any of the water so everything is coming into into our yard and you'll see in some of the pictures what's happened to now our yard because of how that's been filled and

graded so that that's a premium L VI right now it can just scroll through Jos and like you know like this is obviously got brought from another job because that's like I don't know like a lamp cement post or something like that you know all of that and you know like I'm sure if the name neighb from B Road have to look at that all day long they'll probably have different opinion they do look at it not this part of it we look at all this neighbors we look at all of this nobody else has we are the most impacted lot by all of this literally so you know all all this uh vehicles have been stored and knowing that there violation and they have not been moved until 3 days before the court appearance so that's said there from so we cannot pretend that we don't know what the rules are and still like there's still all three three trailers on the property today and an RB so has to in violation there's a small gray trailer there's the Big White Trailer there's a flatbed trailer in front of the barn and then there's the r just keep keep

scrolling um so obviously you know he's doing work and with the the great issue that now is becoming like um uh Miss vola was over there earlier and she literally stands on my property and the and the um the grade uh on on the neighbor's property is almost to her height when the property was purchased everything was level from from our property to his property and since then now it's all property is built up so unfortunately that is a different yeah yeah I but it all but it all goes to that he's bringing this fill in from other jobs putting it on the property and then pushing it out that still that still is do you know if the fill that's being used is compliant with what the permit allowed it's not because it has hard pack in it there's not we have that here too you can scroll a little bit more you can see like asphalt under it that that's bared I mean we can just scroll quickly like it's okay oh there there you go that's the that's that's the current drainage situation with what was created and after that receded for weeks it still sat and all the green algae grew

um oh there well there you go um and basically there it's becoming wet I mean I know he graded a little bit it remedied situation a little bit but it's still like I haven't been able to cut on there the entire season so far because it's so wet we can just that's a good representation of think how the AR looks and I like if you keep scrolling Josh like I I think I want to show um one particular picture on once it uh once uh the rain washed off where you can see the asol that's being buried you know under the ground that that He piled on top so you know you can see like the dump he just brings the dump trucks and dump tracks of stuff and just dumps it there um getting close and you know we don't have aritis or F you know he didn't do any of those things to to our side of the property so that's there you go that that's the one I was looking for so as you can see like this from my angle is that once the rain

um washed off the underneath although on top of it some sort of a dir underneath is nasal so you can see that everything that's in that multiple feet of field that he put in there it's all the junk it's debris from his job okay I mean we're good I mean that that's a good representation of things and that's all the CH that need to come down according to the histal per I I appreciate that's a difference yeah thank you yeah yeah um got anything else on your I I think we pretty much I'm just trying to okay all right thank you thank you thank you any other um uh public uh comments from anybody else all right uh if the or if the uh property owner and representation can come back up okay trees falling down is is part of Mother Nature Ash tre's right Locus trees right okay uh so I'll I'll just jump in real quick there there's clearly

components of a business that uh from what I'm seeing and from what I've seen because I've been to the property that is not in compliance with what the uh with this what this board had provided did you know was it 10 plus years ago um and then there's there's stuff that is Mother Nature right I mean absolutely so so there's and I'm try to separate the two and at the end of the day we have five components of storage of material storage of equipment um and work happening on the property for the business not for the property so there's components that is happening on this property that is enir viation of um the variance that was provided uh with the guidance that was provided at that time so I guess not I don't want to talk about the trees I don't want to talk about the fill that is a that's a different application I do want to talk about the the constru the the trailers the recreational trailers are a separate issue okay the um the trees are a separate issue okay and and the citation for the three trailers was February 26th

of this year not September I got the letter right here from the town okay okay that next day they were moved where they belong and and and you're allowed three trailers you're allowed three trailers or RV materials one in front one on the side and one in back I I can give you the code number if you'd like it okay so he chose to originally put him in back because CU he thought it was nice neat why have uh snowmobile trailer out front his uh camper around the side and then his Motocross trailer and back it doesn't seem to make logical sense from the neighbor point I can see their point of view they don't want to look at all all three of them stacked up nice and neat so we're not we're not claiming that that Tim has not made errors okay we're not claiming that at all all they were claiming is that every time he is in cited he's taken definitive quick action to modify the situation get his equipment undercover etc etc and he's not it's not like he can't use his Bobcat on his own property to regrade I don't have material at the property for resale everything I do on

the property is for myself it's it's so sorry you loading a dump truck getting rid of the stone pile that everyone 's complaining about we made it go away that you that you just said that you were going to be using on the property so I I mean I I want to understand I'm I'm watching a video of you loading a dump truck of stone that is stored on your property and so yeah I'm confused I guess we made the stone pile go away that was before well Stone pile is still there as of today it is there's another Stone pile a brand new stone pile cuz Pat Stevens came over over I need a 2 to1 slope behind the barn where there's trees coming down tomorrow needs to be restone I got a stone delivery today that's going to get graded out once the trees are down pat correct you came over took a look at everything everything looked okay did you want to say something I'm sorry what's that if you're going to speak I need you to come up to to the mic unfortunately you want to know about the F permit said you didn't I that's a separate issue so that's okay yep so I mean I used my equipment on my

property and it was stipulated when I got the permit that because I have equipment I'm allowed to use it on my property the kids build dirt bike jumps all the time they ride their electric dirt bikes around in the backyard they ride their little pit bikes around in the back a I mean they're not stuck in the house all day they're kids so sorry we use the property for recreation Recreation but I don't want my kids stuck in the house all day I I don't know if anybody here was talking about um the use of hit bikes and and whatnot on well they used the V get build jumps and stuff like that so J Jim I don't know if you guys can answer this um because of how long ago this was um the storage of the commercial vehicles to be stored um inside um does the building that's out

there does that did that meet the requirements or the what was presented to the board at that point or I don't know you were on the board at that point as well that building was actually added the there's the original barn and then there's um another section that goes to um off to the back of it that was added at the assistance of the zoning board so that the equipment could be stored inside the building when not in use as opposed to being out in the open all the time the reason I'm asking is um that back portion uh is a three-sided yes it is not a four-sided correct and that was approved by the planning board okay um the applicants had actually asked for a larger footprint M so that more could be stored inside and the size was reduced um I believe at the request of the planning board but I'd have to go through the minutes again um but it was reduced from what was originally requested to satisfy someone um but that was the condition was that the equipment be stored in the barn were not in use um someplace in the minutes and I couldn't I can't find it

right now I'm sure that I can if I read it more thoroughly um the homeowner could use the equipment in their own yard for their own maintenance um but that employees could not be on the premises working on the equipment um trying to think of what else if I may yeah I do want to just add that the question was is the building acceptable or something along those lines not not per the building code but per what was presented to this board so at that point the board in in one of the stipulations was the completion of construction must occur by June 12th 2012 um I'd like just point out to the board that the building permit is still open and active or it's actually expired now there it never was closed out the building department also reached out in 2021 to notify them and never was met with a response Chris from the building department stopped over and gave me final approval on the barn do you have that in writing it was from 2012 I could probably find it yeah I absolutely I would you can get that I would appreciate that also when the when

the the special use permit was granted we had nine employees chip trucks chippers um stump grinders it's me and my son that's it got a dump truck a bobcat and an excavator that's it all I have now so we've downsized quite a bit so then I'm going to ask the question at the time that you had nine employees and all that equipment mhm the intent was all that equipment would be stored in side corre and for looking at the again I'm looking at the photos and I've been out to the site over the last two you know month or so um every time I passed it there's been equipment outside so now that you've downsized everything can be stored inside it's not I guess it so why is it not it is and if you go over there right now it's inside everything is in the front in stuffed in the barn I mean we could take a ride over there right now if you want to see it not the recreational trailers yeah the recreational well there is one snow wheel trailer in there cuz I didn't want it outside cuz we're allowed three so we did stuff one in there so just

to toss a possible uh solution out besides Tim trying to be more diligent um How about if he proposes putting a BM along the on his property where the two neighbors are and planting some uh trees for screening and work harder complying with his uh special use permit say something to that no the public the public uh session is closed unfortunately um I guess I I have a I have a couple of concerns right I mean and I appreciate you offering that um you know I look at myself if I was in an R3 District um and you have some great neighbors they're very happy with you uh they came here to speak right I mean that takes a lot for somebody to take time out of their their uh is it Tuesday to come out uh to support a neighbor so you've obviously um made good with with some of the neighbors right um You are in an R3

District you have it made good with all your neighbors obviously again on the flip side you have a couple neighbors here that are speaking against it um you know there was a special use permit um as you know at your own admission there's been things that you have not complied with and every time that it has been brought to your attention you comply with but then all of a sudden it sound looks and appears to LAX again right so we shouldn't be having this conversation I agree that you are not in compliance you should just be in compliance so to have have you offer something to make amends I appreciate it but on the flip side we've been it's been 10 years and I don't know how many times there's been violations or whatnot but there's been what appears to be a reoccurring um so I don't know we've never been had a letter or anything other than this year we never all the complaints have been in the last 12 months yep or or any citations complaint has been in 10

months so and everything has been complied with in the last 10 months and that neighbor right there looks directly at my barn and he'll tell you every night my equipment is in there nice and neat every night since Jim has given us a letter so so the permit's been in effect 22 years n and there's no documented complaints or citations except in the last 10 or 12 months so either he's done a pretty good job for 21 out of 22 years or he's or he has new neighbors and it's Ian there's a plethora of reasons right at the end of the day you're still in an R3 district there are still um components that you need need to comply with right you know you're saying that the equipment is stored in there at night that was not part of the conditions the conditions were in that Barn right if you're driving home for lunch I don't think anybody here is going to make a boo about it but at the end of the day that equipment and I look

at all these photos that you sat through as well there was more than just at night that they were stored there that I mean we're taking the pictures were taken during the day and throughout right so I I'm I'm seeing one thing I'm hearing something else is what it comes down to so I pictures can be deceiving it's a half a second shot okay and in like if the picture's in the morning and the equipment's coming out of the uh Barn per se I mean it needs to get a loaded on the trailer maybe move one piece come off the trailer the other piece go on okay I'm not saying loen Stone in the back of the dump truck so the the the photos and videos can be deceiving I didn't see any date on any any of the videos but the point that I'm making is that if there haven't been any issues in 21 years to revoke his permit because he's had only you don't get you don't get a free pass because even if you had 20 great years and then he had one one year

where there are what appear to be by the photos yeah some legitimate um concerns about some of your neighbors correct obviously you have great relationship with a with a vast majority of them but the people that have presented evidence as it is a snapshot right show a different story correct so just because even if you were in perfect compliance those 20 years doesn't give you a free pass to even the past year to say well look at my first 20 years I did great now also doesn't indicate that the uh special use permit should be revoked because on its own no it doesn't correct correct okay but the their silence shouldn't necessarily become uh construed as they're thinking you've done a great job sometimes you need to get to a certain point act I get it I understand just to say that they haven't said anything until the past year doesn't mean they haven't been affected are concerned about it it's just sometimes just to be a decent neighbor you say okay we'll let him go this far this far this far so finally you say I can't do this anymore so the history of

it whether it's been 5 years 20 years whatever I think has very little to do with it it's what's happening now which is why you're here based on the citations I would think the the history of no complaints has a lot to do with it but but we also looking at photos hist the property has changed over the course of the time as well right I mean there was vation that's right there was was all ash trees they all died y I'm sorry it sucks no again and I don't want it like that but to your to your point Y at the end of the day the last 12 months last 12 months is probably when the majority of a lot of this has occurred right so so I get it prior you didn't have a fill permit so you weren't filling prior you had vation we did have a fill permit 15 from 2015 when we allowed the town to come through our yard with a drainage project to help out the private drive next to us they tied into the catch Basin in her yard and brought a pipe through our property which I told him go ahead I didn't give them a Vance um

because I didn't want to have to deal with the 15 ft with the variant so I just said yeah go ahead so they brought a catch Basin over and did a complete drainage project on a private drive because the shant track flooded them out when they did that I got a fill permit because I was doing some great then Co happened all the ash trees died took them all down my my point to it is a lot has changed on the property over the years right so the point of there hasn't been complaints the property has changed right is is a big component of itre so again I I apologize the U public comment it's not correct understood so so so given that that that has occurred that's why we offered to fence green plant trees and you know get get more cover and and tried harder to make sure that we're 100% compliance other comments from the board Josh or

Jim I know we've changed systems a couple of times do you have from when this permit was issued 12 years ago do you have a file of complaints that have been received or I don't know how any of that works I'm sorry we've moved over to a new system we moved over to a new system um within the last couple of years and only one that I have in our system is from 2015 and it was logged by um the previous building inspector okay that's when the sewer went that's when the sewer went in that's when the sewer went in it's I don't know that if it's when the sewer went and I just know there's a log Mr Stevens actually gave me the date of the sewer project I didn't that so to try to kind of bring this conversation and towards a conclusion here I just remind the board of the standard of review here um direct your attention to section 35013 section F subsection one uh the purpose of this hearing is to determine whether there been a material failure of compliance with any one of the terms conditions limitations or requirements imposed by said permit obviously that's a bit of a vague

standard as to whether is a material non-compliance and that's for the board to determine I would note that the board can decide whether to revoke the special use permit or alternatively impose any further conditions that they see fit um in um ensuring future compliance thank you so I I guess I'll just I'll throw out there to the board um you know there's a lot of different things happening on the property uh obviously some some neighbors are are happy with uh with this particular property others are not um there's a lot of different components you know I I agree a tree falling is is a tree falling um I'm not going to you know could it be from um Phil it maybe they're as they a lot of them were ash trees and the ashp got to a lot of my trees as well so I I mean trees unfortunately do die especially when there are ashes um in our region um you know by by what I heard um was

admittance of you know some violations of um of of the the uh the requirements that were imposed upon this um me personally I you know I've witnessed equipment out there um you know over the last month or so um I'm not out there on a regular basis um you know I guess I look look to again we if it's an R3 residential neighborhood you know I I personally would not be happy with uh some of the photos in my backyard um so I I can definitely feel for some of the neighbors uh I went to the private drive on the other side and and it it's a it's night and day to be honest from from at least what I saw um you know one side is landscaped and you know lawn and you know BM and arbites and the other side is not um so there's definitely there's definitely been a lot of um there's a lot of moving Parts on this I'm I definitely see that there have been violations within um you know and

you know one of the other comments of you know when there's been violations uh it's been resolved but you know again you see loading Stone there's still a pile of stone out there I I just be frank I don't know what to believe you know is really what it comes down to and uh it's where I'm struggling well and there are a lot of moving parts right now cuz we still got The Fill permit um I know that Pat Stevens has been out looking at the impact on the drainage and keeping an eye on the fill and it filling it in to to even it out um there's between the private drive and Galo um the the private drive and that side of gravel are at one level and then the whole neighborhood of galb is probably 2 to 3T F feet lower um the entire neighborhood so anything that happens on the parcel is exacerbated by the change in topography between the two neighborhoods um and I don't I don't know that there's anything I don't know what resolves that

that's and I know Pat's keeping an eye on it and I'm going to stay in my lane and let him let him manage that um but is is part of the situation there now because of you have to take the trees down and then put in the gravel to remediate and then you can do the two to1 slope to make that side better but what how can you hide it the burm obviously would excuse me work in some trees you're not going to plant anything along the property line because it's low and wet and nothing will grow there um except well swamp Willows but those aren't actually going to hide anything um and and would I want to look at it no but if it were buffered I I don't know because there's just so much going on with it right now well also with the buffer it's not like it's going to be instant no it to grow before even if he plants good size you know shrub or Andor trees it's still not going to be an immediate effect so

and offense would help defense will help but like you said because the grade difference well and I don't think defense can be on the lot line I think defense would have to be at the peak of the elevation right on their property not on not on the the uh the lower residence side but but even then it because I feel for for someone that when they buy something especially when you're buying your house it's a beautiful tree Lop behind you and you think this is great but you have no say you have no guarantee that that's ever going to stay that right you have no control over the owner so it's one of those things like they could have clearcut it or it could have burned down or whatever so in that respect there's no guarantee implied and especially if they were all ashes and they all just died because of the emerald ashb that's you know you really they can't be responsible for an act of go again that's why you know going back to this is really about the home occupation right right plain and simple because but it's not plain and simple because it has all these other active parts that are all affecting it if it was just a with just the home occupation we would have probably put a vote to it half an hour

ago there's just too many things I think that although they are separate I think are difficult to separate from the overall action which I know we have to but I think it's for me it's difficult to separate one from the other what it sounds like to me is the board is trying to find ways to to mitigate the effect of the non-compliance right and really what the the hearing is about is determining whether it was a material non-compliance with the use permit so that is the threshold level question does this board find a material non-compliance if yes then options are to either revoke the permit or impose other conditions to ensure compliance and perhaps other um efforts to mitigate any of the visual impact thank you so I I mean I I'll answer that question for myself yes I find I find uh I would agree you know uh material non-compliance right is is I've been out there three times and like you said it could just be his bad luck that every time been out there there have been Vehicles there right and it's not like I commercial vehicles not just okay not not but appear to be commercial vehicles

I I didn't look at the license plate but there's a dump there's a um I think it was a bobcat or some sort of skid steer right I couldn't tell because it was through the um through the brush but uh and it was at different times of the day so it's not like I came at the same time every day and it was the same situation so I believe it is is there is some based on the level threshold that you presented I I agree with you on that that that there is right but he obviously has worked with a number of neighbors to make it right with them maybe you know a condition could could be that has to work with them yeah so mean let's answer the question first I mean so I I mean I don't know what the other board members if how they feel if they f a material non-compliance um or not but I guess I'm I'm asking the rest of the board yes yes I don't know I think we could maybe there is obviously some non-compliance here there no doubt in my mind there's some non and that's all I that's all I want to I just want to start with that first because if we find that there's a non-compliance then then there's two options it is finding a

alternative solution or revoking the so what I'm hearing and Grant I don't know if you're in agreement or not it it's I've been in and around the property several times and at times there have been non-compliances visible the conditions as to why I can't I can't speak to yep so so with that I guess let's move the the conversation then on to what do we do moving forward right I mean two options do we find a solution that satisfies the neighbors um that impose additional conditions or do we revoke um I not going to speak for the h neighbors I don't know if there is any conditions um I like the the option that was thrown out but I'm not the one living there to be honest right um is what it comes down to we to it we are not not yet if I would ask because what was proposed are efforts to mitigate the visual impact on the neighbors but there I not many would suggest that the board consider if you are going to um not revoke but impose

conditions that there should be conditions to ensure compliance be it working with a code code enforcement officer on a periodic basis reporting back to this board on a periodic basis so that the board can ensure actual compliance I appreciate that and that it goes back to and Josh I don't know in we had asked that this come back to the board 6 months after it was granted and I don't know I don't think we have record of one way or the other if it came back we weren't able to find any record of it coming back at that six-month increment okay um so I I guess I I appreciate that definitely on the um you know making sure it it stays within compliance I'll look too because I think we do have record of coming back I think if you do that that would be great again I'll look back the town has switched systems and yeah things may may not have well you're talking 22 years ago so yeah well and that's because we we have the minutes from November it was tabled it went to December the the zoning board gave conditions it went to the planning board to approve the burn it had to come back to the zoning board because of the

size and then we don't have that documentation and I I don't I can't remember what I did yesterday I can't tell you happened 12 years ago um years ago but it seems like maybe it would be there but I don't know that that will give us any information that it it won't right helps us so absolutely and if we do impose additional conditions um I I think we need to be painfully wordily specific that cuz cuz going going back and looking at them now at the time they seemed very clearcut but we weren't specific as to when did the equipment have to be back in the barn and when is it okay to have it out and right you know so so [Music] we I thought the stipulation was for at night and that's that was totally mising had listed hours of operation but yeah outside storage or parking of the vehicles right so it doesn't stipulate so standpoint it is all the time unless it is leaving the property right so when we're unloading and loading and stuff

like that I mean if you're loading to leave or pull stuff out to get other stuff but yeah it it's pared I I didn't realize that I I thought I thought the way I got everything stacked if the Bobcat's out front I pull it around the corner we go to work we come home we put everything back we put the Bobcat back in I didn't think that was an issue so of Neighbors understood so the stack a fence was was there all along pleas please I mean we're getting to to 10 o00 now and um this one yeah me too um so I I'm looking to the board you know I from from my standpoint I I'll be frank I'm I'm struggling myself um I can come up with a number of additional conditions um I personally have not interacted with you other than here so you know all I all I know is what I see with my eyes

and um you know and then what I'm hearing it kind of contradicts so um I'm glad you have a what appears to be a thriving business I think that's great uh you are in I go back to you are in an R3 District you have a special use permit the intent of the special use permit is to make sure you don't piss off your neighbors right and right now you're pissed you have right um so where do we go from here you know I'm not your neighbor I can come up with things that would make me happy I'm not your neighbor I guess you know the arbor vites is great as Chris mentioned they are not going to grow in day one a 10-ft fence would be phenomenal with the arbites that's not going to stop the noise you know um that also doesn't relieve you of the the requirements of uh the initial um you know position of the board right so I guess for me I'm I'm I'm of the opinion it's a a revocation unless we can come up with

another solution and I'm I'm open to it but I I need to hear I need to hear from everybody else I'm leaning that way but I think because of the number of neighbors that don't have an issue with it which again they're in different position I mean different locations throughout the site versus looking at the back end of it like the the the ones that have complained about it um but still like you said my my issue is that I've been out there a number of times and it's always in violation and the fact that he says well every time I've been told he takes care of it but then it appears since they're not new violations the repeat of the old ones that he isn't as on top of of the permit uh requirements as he probably should be now whether that's intentional or just that's just the way we work as human beings I don't know I don't think it's I don't think it's anything nefarious but I I don't see how anything any stipulations we can put on are going to rectify the situation for the Neighbors on gal because like you said a fence could

block it a fence with vegetation can make it a little more aesthetically pleasing but that's not going to change the noise or potentially any issues from other things that are going on on the site so for that reason I would agree with you right now if you said yay or or I'm leaving toward revocation as well unless the neighbors themselves that are have issues with it said no we'd be okay with that sure which I would not be willing to bet they'd say at this point in time and I'm not going to look at them because they'd say no other board members I'm I'm taking it away give them time to clean the stuff up and come back and apply again and be monored by the code enforcement yeah I'm I'm kind of leaning with most of the people I think opinion is uh the revocation I really don't see anything that would mediate uh the problems that are on g r nothing that's going to be easy and effective right would if he was to comply

with the stipulations that were in the original agreement with the hours of operation and stuff away and things like that and maybe clean up around the Gul a little bit I don't think there'd be as much of an issue as there is right now what would be his time frame if it revoked this evening where he could apply again for it since it's it's a revocation of an existing one is there a time limit I I don't believe that there's a moratorium on on reapplying for a special use permit Josh are you familiar with anything I am not aware of anything like that let's say he so it could be tomorrow right but I'm saying that if if we revoked it this evening just theoretically and he worked with his neighbors and cleaned up got to the point where they supported it and he reapplied in theory it could be next week right according to to code so we're not keeping him from rectifying the situation we're just making him jump through another hoop well you're I mean small business we are asking him to find another place to park all his Vehicles all his uh commercial vehicles right can

if we revoke it I don't know if we give it the opportunity is it revoked as of midnight tonight or does he have 30 days or you you would typically provide a period of time like if he gave him two months to find other places for his vehicles or something like that so what if we tabled it and we cleaned up I think I think we're beyond that unfortunately okay just a thought appreciate it gr I see you you thinking I'm I I'm torn on this no matter what is done at the property the no the noise isn't the noise isn't going to be mitigated by a burm or by the plantings and and even if it's early in the morning and just late at night and nothing in the middle there's no way to cancel out the noise of diesel trucks or the backup alarms on the Bobcats and and I've I've lived

it we we had a similar situation however with a neighbor so I don't however if if I'm I'm looking at my photos correctly if they're parked in the three-sided barn and leaving out directly and leaving out directly and not parked behind the barn a lot of that noise would be mitigated by the barn being pulled into onto a trailer I mean you're you're not going to eliminate it completely to your point but it ends up being M but if you can mitigate it in and in theory the way the property is laid out and where the door is on that building if they're truly in the barn The Neighbors at 949 and 951 would be the ones that would be most impacted most impacted by it and they're not so no no there is a small BM there there are some Arbor but those Arbor are not blocking anything at this point in time they're they're fairly new they're fairly new and young and I don't I don't know the right answer

yeah the public hearing is closed now um you know if the board is going to consider um something short of revocation then I I I would suggest again that there has to be some sort of uh schedule similar to what was in the original permit probably on a more frequent basis to ensure compliance um with the actual not the mitigation efforts but actual compliance with the the terms of the special use permit code enforcement officer you know coming onto the property for random inspections and it happen you know every so often set that schedule to come back um and that would be at the board's discussion however often if if there's continued non compliance including some of the other um things that were noted on the property that appear to be need to be cleaned up um if the town or excuse me the board was inclined to do so mhm but that's if if you are seeking an alternative short of

revocation I mean I and Coran I think I'm I'm in the same boat you are I mean my my revocation feels feels to be right but I I also don't want to um it just a touch severe just just just just a smidge like I because I agree with you that's I mean I think I'm not speak for everyone but I think we all kind of feel the same way and that that seems to be the course to take but you know only because like I said uh his neighbors you don't defend someone like that if you're just about it you don't you don't spend 3 hours here speaking up for him and and saying I'm okay with it however we also can't ignore the the people that have come out in opposition for it and that have presented evidence that honestly I think we've all seen as well yes so that's that's the part where I'm that that I'm torn but like I said I think if we were to um reate it at least he knows what he needs to do do and that if he you know fixes the situation and feels that he's he's made a good effort um he can reapply for it and you

know and there's it's not like he has to wait six months or a year he could do it if he meets with the the neighbors that have issues with them and says okay what can I do to to try and make this tolerable for you because it's never going to be like it was before then maybe he reapplies and whether that happens next week next month or whatever but he's got he's got an opportunity because that's to me if he couldn't apply for another year or so I wouldn't I'd be even less more for it because we're keeping him from doing what he needs to do I can appreciate that thank you Chris um all right so this doesn't follow the do no depending on the board's determination you'll just want to make sure that the motion um highlights the the standard of review in that particular section what is the section again here you [Applause] go sure

all right um I'm going to try this if I mess it up please uh somebody correct me um regarding 941 Gravel Road special use permit major home occup home occupation review uh located at 941 Gravel Road uh town of Webster zoning board of appeals um has uh has reviewed the a home major home occup occupation um and has uh found let's see the home occupation is in violation of uh material failure of compliance with um with let's see um eliminating out outside storage or parking or parking of the commercial vehicles um which includes the bobcad and the chipper uh with uh with the [Music] construction outdoor outdoor storage of the commercial vehicles um and material as well uh I'm looking for it on here what number is

it I don't see the material on what I'm reading it's a it's a general it's General oh okay thank you with all terms of yeah- 37 thank you now what what is the new section of the code now 35037 is that right no it should be yes 35037 35037 a2g is the one that has been cited by code enforcement thank you I'm going to start over um this the town of Webster Zing board of appeals uh has reviewed the special use permit at 941 Gravel Road uh and has found the uh applicant has uh violated um and has had a material failure of compliance with uh outside storage um parking of commercial vehicles as well as materials uh as identified in uh section 35-37 D a2g um this board is

um I guess making a motion to revoke the special use permit um for said home home occupation then can we give him like 90 days to comply say you can that however long but yeah you you can put a Time Lim on it um I was going to say 60 days I mean I think at least 60 I think that's fair because he needs to potentially find other places y to to do stuff and uh I think 60 uh it also allows him to if he feels it's worth it to try and work out any issues with any neighbors neighbors yep absolutely is there any other I guess there's really no conditions on a revocation so uh 60 days um of compliance to find other means of um for his home occupation I guess is what it comes down to restated home uh 60 days to Cease the home

occupation do I have a second second okay okay Mr short hi Mr CA hi Mrs Volo I Mr lagner I Mr SP hi all right um unfortunately we have revoked the special uh use permit for the home occupation um there's been a lot of discussion here we I L recommend um you get with your neighbors to see what can uh what resolution can occur um CU I hope to see you back here for for it again um with a you know with a resolution is what I'm hoping for thanks P yep thank you thank you um do we want to table so got table the next one he's leaving so yeah okay um so there was um a survey map that did not have full information on um 941 Gravel Road uh parking for recreational vehicles um I do recommend that we table

that um till the next meeting um at which time hopefully they can get us uh more accurate information yeah they're gone anyway so I make a motion to table the 941 um Gravel Road parking of recreational vehicles second all those in favor I I thank [Music] you um meeting minute approvals um not we don't have any today not today okay uh I think with that um we're adjourned or um have to make a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all those in favor I