captions Language: en um I guess this is the Thursday August uh 24 2023 Webster Town board Workshop uh interestingly enough we only have one item tonight it's that special of an item uh yes uh and um I just want to say that before I hand the Baton off to uh Rick and Jean from Gene O'Connell Associates on their presentation of what their firm does I just wanted to take a little trip down memory lane on this uh project uh the town has been endeavoring in for over a year now um Patty cataldi our Deputy Town supervisor I think you were in the first meeting in early August 2022 where we had a think tank amongst about 10 key people in town government to say look we got a lot of things going on in this town in the next couple years major projects we need a proactive uh strategy on how to identify and then apply for and then if we are lucky enough to get awarded grants manage the grants and here to four uh the town government strategy on that was really when we hired the uh engineering firm to do the design of a municipal project one of their ancillary Services was to help us get grants and um so that was kind of the Genesis of it and and Patty I know you were at several of those meetings it was interesting early on anytime you have a think tank and you're starting with a blank piece of paper it's interesting but as we moved forward uh I think it was earlier this year um there was a a request for a proposal that was put out I think a dozen to 14 firms uh proposed something to the town of how they saw they could help the town with this a committee that we had a subcommittee um vetted those applications and came down to four that presented at a workshop I think back in June maybe May um and because we said this is one of these things where we want to make sure we get it right um we we kind of regrouped after we had the workshop and had four firms present and within that regrouping and looking at this uh one of the firms that had originally submitted an application was Gina Kyle Associates Gino O'Connell Associates and I guess without further Ado we thought it was uh a good move to have Gene and Rick from Gene O'Connell Associates come in and do a presentation to the town board into the community who is here live or watches this on what their firm does within the grant process to see if uh maybe as we go forward it fits into the town's vision of identifying applying and managing grants so there's my long preamble Jane and Rick I'll hand the Baton to you guys opportunity to um tuned tonight before I get down to business I'll just tell you a little bit about myself I have done this work for over 30 years but I had I've had three lives and the first one I was a school teacher and I taught art for many years and I taught senior citizen painting in the town and all kinds of things like that and then my second life I was the first director of the Clarence Senior Center and moved into a brand new building that had absolutely nothing in it but a desk for me and the place was empty it was built with Community Development funds and I came in June and for six months my salary and what I had to spend was five thousand dollars for six months so I learned how to get very inventive and how to um you know scam nickels out of the pop machine hold various asundry things like flea markets and things like that so we could exist and five years later probably well maybe in the fourth year I hired a grant writer there to work for me with me and he used to come in all the time with his pile of Grants and say and I'd criticize something and he'd say oh Gene you're so good at this you ought to come work for me so they wouldn't make my job full time at the senior center and it certainly was a full-time job I was staying many hours past the 20.
and so I said okay let's go and so I resigned and I resigned after five years of having two thousand members uh 200 volunteers an outreach program I started Meals on Wheels and everything was great there had a volunteer party they loved me but I felt like I needed something more so I went to work for him and found out he didn't really know much about grant writing he had reviewed grants in the service but really he was starting out too but he was a great salesman and he could sell you anything so I believed him so anyways I decided Well I said it now I might as well keep going so basically I learned how to do this on my own and what he knew was I came from a very political family my uncle was actually a congressman at one point so I was used to politics my father was the town chairman in our town they used to have secret meetings in our spare bedroom and you know so I knew a lot about politics and he didn't really know much about it at all so he said Gene why don't you uh do Municipal work I have never done any of that I only do not for profits so I started out with him the first day uh we went to three towns and never landed any of them so I left the next time and I went by myself in the first client I talked to I signed up and that was the beginning of this and why I like it is because there are so many places just like yours that never really got into grant writing they hit and miss you know somebody comes in writes a grant but it's not a whole process that keeps going on and so I decided that's how it had to be so when I left him I left with no clients and five of I had five clients at the time one person can do about five clients and you're killing yourself so I left and I managed to re-sign four of them so I started again and when I got to five or six I said what am I going to do I gotta hire people you know there's if I want to serve these people which I do I've got to find a way so that's how I started my business and it's a New York state woman-owned business and I have survived all these years in that business and I've come to love it I love what I do every day is interesting because I deal with all kinds of wonderful people like your supervisor here who who loves to chat me up and I like to chat people up too so it's okay so that's that's how I started and grew the business and kept buying getting employees and paying them so this is a this is a real business where I pay taxes on them I pay social security on them they are not contracted Consultants they are by employees and so then this man now over here Mr Richard Mancuso he is my office manager and he was looking for something to do so I'd like him to tell about himself sure so for uh many years I was the business administrator for the Clarence schools and then I just pretty much wanted to change um and then I I came here but being the business administrator I naturally you know we had 800 employees we had a 100 million dollar budget so the business end of O'Connell is something that is is very easy for me to take care of uh grants for the school district you know my office was in charge of researching grants getting grants for the school district obviously we had to write the grants and we had to run the grants so I would say in any of those years we probably had five million dollars worth of Grants when covet came that quadrupled and all the grants that that we had to run and administer apply for and make sure that we had um perfect compliance with just just grew and grew and uh so I it gave me quite a good background to come here and do this unfortunately since he had such a great budget where he was he loves to pay my employees a lot of money so that that is a little problem she must be to pay in the 5 000 for six months yeah that might be great but anyways so we're here tonight to talk about grant writing and I know you've heard many people speak to you about it so I won't keep boring you by repeating the same old things um I think it would be good if Rick Manny talked about our the way we work versus what you heard before because I did listen to it all so I know okay sure um we did go through and listen to the presentations and um a lot of what they all said that was the same we won't repeat uh you know we have a staff of six people and and our crew will research grants for every entity that's out there we have a huge database of grants that we have done in the past but we have a huge database of funding agencies and what can get funded and for who you know disadvantaged communities you're not a disadvantaged community you know so so we don't spend time looking for those grants for you we do know all the um political players in every area we get to know them very closely so that we can do Sam grants and we can get the maximum funding for you you know we're in the middle of some DEC grants we're in the middle of getting some electric charging stations for a lot of people we just submitted at the end of July the the large State Consolidated funding applications are due so you know for pretty much every one of our Municipal clients we submitted at least one or two large grants we've submitted one actually a 10 million dollar one for your neighbor East Rochester so we we go through all of those constant communication um with number one a liaison that typically you'll appoint but um our our meetings for needs assessment in the very beginning are are critical uh you probably have 12 to 15 department heads those department heads we will meet with separately get their wish list then we will meet with you know supervisor to go through the wish list make sure that everything that we see and the time frames that we see them go along with your master plan how old your master plan well uh it's old which leads me it's not a teenager yet no it is a teenager which leads me probably to the most important thing you can do and that's plan ing is so important to most of these things they just love it when you can quote a plan and the more planning you do the better um Rick gave you attachments here that have some of our projects on it just turn to the one that says Seneca Falls I worked there for probably we'll get there right now actually I'm the project manager for this project on the fourth floor um which one pardon on the fourth floor U.S ceilings on the project manager okay we're doing shiplap and uh drywall on the fourth floor so I was going to ask you about the this project the grant okay well when I talked about planning Seneca Falls I started there with a planner and and got him did not only speak spiff up their comprehensive plan but we did a economic development plan there were a couple other ones and when you look at this page these are all things that happen there because there were plans to back them up um you can see that on the waterfront the um little whatever you call Gazebo whatever um that was a New York State Department of Transportation project where we did the sidewalks and things like that and it was like you know eight hundred and twelve thousand dollars we did going down the page we did Main Street Grant about three of them this is just one of them and then the next one is a Department of State Canal Grant where we put out docs and things like that the bottom one is the National Women's Hall of Fame which we I applied for a 2.5 million dollar Grant through restore and it had to go through the town it couldn't go through them and so they got that and that was the beginning of their converting this Factory building to the National Women's Hall of Fame and today we still do all their grants administrations so we're pretty familiar with that project but that was something that built on this original grant that was from the town so if you want to go back and you can see that on the first page is the Riviera Theater that's in North Tonawanda and that uh is what we did there was a historic preservation Grant and allowed us to fix up the uh the front of it and and put the bright lights on that and make it really wonderful and I was just eating there a couple days ago not in the theater but down the street and I could see the the thing is so great and it looks so wonderful and now I guess they're gonna start um really doing their plant their uh other renovation but that's how it all started and it really has added to their little downtown um the next one is from the town of Whitestown and that is a perfect example of why You Need Someone Like Us because when this program first came out this first year and I always say if it's new try it if it fits the guidelines because they don't really know what they're looking for the first year either and maybe you'll be lucky but so I always encourage my clients to try so this was the first year of the program and they got a bridge New York grant for 1.4 million dollars and this bridge was flagged so I knew when it was flagged that it was one they wanted to do so those are the kinds of things the knowledge that we have that helps you so I can either say hey you got a great project because your Bridge was flagged or you know don't waste your time because they got all those with flags ahead of them and when I drive down the Thruway tonight look at some of them I see them the next one is the ire building that's in East Rochester and that's where they now have their village town hall and this is an example of lots of Grants getting to the end okay it wasn't just one thing and you can see that it used to be the Xerox building they got it they gave it to them and then they ripped down the Village Hall next to it which don't tell Marty I said this but really was a very ugly Town Hall village hall and he would tell you that too so I hope he doesn't watch this anyways and so this started out with them getting that building donated and then the downstairs is all commercial retail and then the upstairs is all their office buildings and we got a money to do all kinds of things like the records room and their libraries and their senior center there's all kinds of things going on in there and we just um got him a new elevator because whoever designed it had a Teensy little elevator that nobody could even get upstairs and downstairs if there was an emergency so he's been harping about that forever so that's finally coming to fruition too so it was a combination of things that got that done so many times it is uh the last one that I brought along was the mossy Bank Park in the village of bath probably in my mind and I've been in a lot of parks over 30 years the most beautiful Park I was ever in and it's not in the village it sits up on a bluff overlooking the expressways below and you have to sort of wind up there to get there and it's it's a really beautiful secluded place but if you look at that little building in the left that was the the existing bathroom which was quite ugly and if you look at the right there's the million dollar bathroom I think at the time cost like 300 and some thousand dollars to put it in yeah 320.
oh that was the whole that was the whole Grant we got the swing sets and some other Trail things to walk around exercise Trails so sometimes these things cost a lot more than they thought they thought oh this little restroom is going to cost a hundred thousand I said no no no no and it's it it's absolutely gorgeous it's like a gorgeous one that's brand new on the Thruway or something it looks wonderful but these are the kinds of things that we've done I mean you name it I've been in a sewer plant I've been in lots of dirty records rooms I've been all over um and the thing is you could hire an engineering firm but they're just interested in engineering work we will do everything if your library needs something if your youth people need something you know the police whoever you name it we've written it so that's the important part of what we do and it's key to continue you know you can't just stop and start Grant right it doesn't work that way because a lot of it is cyclical so we'll know when it's going to happen and we'll know if you don't have something like a plan or an updated comprehensive plan or things like that it's really important to get those things in order or an engineering concept drawing or you know prices you name it there are things we need from other people we're not we're dependent on people to give us information we can write the story but we can't invent whatever it is you need so we always like to have you know people that will be willing to help us and we've we've worked with many engineering firms and all kinds of people so it's not a problem that's what we do we also know what grants need special Administration some grants and it's not contingent on the size of the grant you might get a five million dollar grant that it's going to be easy you're not going to need our help to administer it you might we're in the middle of uh renovating a park for one of our clients it's a 380 000 Grant we're going to spend a lot of time helping them administer that Grant there's too many facets to it too many bids that have to go out uh too many too much paperwork for ADA compliance and all those other things so we're going to be working with them quite a bit but we will know up front typically how much work and what it will entail when we write the Grant and then at the award time yeah so and sometimes there is money in the grant not always but sometimes for the there's money in the grant for the administration of it yes sometimes not always but certain ones yes and it does help because being a certified woman business you meet the state criteria for a lot of that yeah yeah you can count us when they tell you to have a 30 whatever we can be the 15 half of it or whatever so would you like to ask us some questions that you've heard most about yeah I got a question I'm really I'm not a voting member oh I am a do you apply for Grants from private foundations as well we can um if you have a 501c3 like sometimes the libraries have them or Recreation or some of those things I just had a call from one of the clients a couple days ago and she had she was doing Library Construction in fact it was an elevator and had already gone to the State Library construction grant program but they that's a 50 50 match so she's short 50 plus the price has increased and she had already gotten a Sam Grant from her or no she couldn't get a Sam Grant says right because you can't match Federal with Federal money um so she was looking for other money I said well do you have a library not for profit Friends of the library something like that that I could work with she says well sort of we have one but we never filed the tax papers and we really don't do anything with it and I'm going well that's not going to work but if you have a viable one that does function and does report yes we can go to the foundations and get money that way sometimes so it would have been perfect had she done that because we could have looked for things through the foundations we we do all kinds of work I've represented all kinds of 501c3s over the years so we know how to do it yeah we do a lot of work with Fire Halls too yeah yeah so anything else you want to know my goodness okay it's not so much a question I could have sworn Maria help me out on this one when we met with Rick in Jean three weeks ago didn't we let them know the word Knee Deep waist deep and up updating our master plan our comprehension I don't know if it came up did it really well we are that's the good yes okay so good happy day and we got the smart growth grant for a hundred thousand dollars from New York state to do it to do it okay and it's been it's it's great we got a hundred grand but we also are about nine months behind our timeline because we can't move forward with advertising the RFP for Consultants until the New York State smart growth people blessed it and we've somewhat been I don't want to say chasing them around yeah yeah but we're getting there yeah make sure when you do it that you put the pertinent projects in that you see down the line because you know I can I can refer to the things but if the Project's actually in there and I can say look at page five and talks all about it that really helps so you know be very Visionary about the kinds of things you want to happen here in the next five years or so and once a year what's this adapted review it and put you in a dump make addendums to it yeah any grant that you have currently or you might write yourself sometimes it's a quick application we still can administer for you that doesn't mean it doesn't have to be a grant that we wrote for you yeah well it's interesting when you said Rick that you know you can get a five million dollar Grant and just it they give you the money and they say you're done and then you can get a 200 000 Grant and they put you through a baton Death March uh I hate to say it administering it Paul Adams our finance director probably can attest to that first and foremost yes there is quite a bit of administration um as quarterly reports oh yeah claims uh we have Paula Friedman in my office who kind of heads that up but she works with a number of people in engineering and Community Development to get the job done sure yeah it's mind-boggling and it's so funny because you know smaller towns such as less than yours you know they think oh we're going to get the check tomorrow and then we're gonna go spend it and I go no no no it doesn't work that way it's like they're very you know the smaller they are the harder it is for them to realize that but yeah and it's really hard sometimes to stop them from doing something before they should do it too so that's why when we administer them we keep our eyes on it so that if anything's happening and we say to you they always want to start before they have a signed contract no you can't do that you know so we sort of yes it's amazing a lot of projects that do get started with no sign contracts right we've experienced that where I work yes yeah so we're very good at making them step it's interesting you had said earlier that you you watched the video of the workshop of two or three months ago where the four finalists from our vetting process if you want to call it presented and uh we had some laughs on it when we got together with you uh three weeks ago is that we well and it made sense we gave them that we gave them all the same projects yeah and it was our Sandbar Park phase two so at least it would be easier to compare apples to apples on how they operate even though this is a professional service it's very difficult to analyze what you're getting it's that we're not buying a product right I mean that is well they're we're buying this this firm charges me a dollar this firm charges me 50 cents kind of easy I take the firmness 50 cents in this because it is and I go back to a year ago where we had a think tank on this about how we're going to go about this here to four we've had engineering firms with their ancillary business do this for us I don't think they've charged us for no it's no they charged you when they got the job and put it in there and you never knew what they charged yeah I couldn't agree with you more so this is you know I the fact that the four finalists presented you did say that the one that stuck out to you was the same one that at least the vetting committee or whatever had chosen yeah similar to your firm in that they are solely doing grants it's not an ancillary division of their business that feeds the core business of engineering but that what you said earlier when you were a one-person shop Gene you really can only manage four or five clients correct and then you're out of bandwidth um I think that that person in that firm is experiencing that right now absolutely I know she is I could tell by what she said yeah yeah and uh so it's interesting because uh besides the fact that I got a couple calls from people I know who utilize your services said you should really take a serious look at you know Connell Associates um the fact that your structure seemed to appeal to what we're trying to do but you had grown it so it's uh it's not all you you're right um was appealing but the the thing that the town government has never uh experienced before like you said it's built into the engineers pricing you just don't know it is that if we take a firm that is not an engineering firm such as yours well that there's there's a contract and there's a there's a pricing model for that I want to get into too much detail on that tonight but your model if if I remember correctly is um an annual you know monthly fee annual fee whatever and within that is the identification and application for Grants the separate charges are if the town decides we'd like you to manage that Grant right right and here it's a four we've never had the option of having a firm manage a grant and I don't want to speak for Paul and some of the other people like Josh and and Maria whatever but some of these grants the management of them is is very difficult and I would imagine if some of the grants have a component in them where you can get administration monies in them correct I don't think if we're administrating our own grants we could get that money yes you could really how would we quantify managing our own grants well you'd have to go through a process and they'd have to okay it but you don't want to do that you want me to do it right I don't I and I go over the most recent one which has been it's great we got the dec forestry Grant to buy 28 Acres I don't know if that one had any Administration in it because it was new list no idea yeah but I know that but like Main Street Main Street Administration hasn't it uh yes it is yes we've earned that 285 000.
yeah the Main Street Grant is one of them that has it in and that's probably the most painful one of all because as a conglomeration of buildings that they all want something so they treat each building as a separate Grant actually and that is like tear your hair hair out time and I'm sure that a lot of them probably never got closed out because if someone didn't know what they were doing it was very painful also Administration doesn't have to be an all or nothing if your office is doing certain things but you want assistance on some of it we're able to do that yeah or you can just say take it no I don't want to be bothered with this at all and we just do everything I think we would supplement for certain grants yeah yeah that's an appealing option that heretofore we have not had right never had them so and I and when I first started I didn't do that and then I realized what was happening was all these people had am I had gotten my money and they were not doing anything with it I went oh my goodness I got to do the other end too or this is going to look really bad the next time they go after something yeah we get a grant award for somebody and because they don't follow through and there are steps when you get the award and and a lot of those steps are time sensitive that by 30 days you to do this and by 90 days you have to do that just to make the award viable and too many clients just let it go thinking that kind of thing well well they're going to send me a check and then we'll figure it out yeah you can bombard it with emails oh yeah with requests and I think the tendency is just I'll get to it um I gave you a list of three towns that are similar in size to yours on this paper so you can sort of see Town of Tonawanda we do all of their grants Administration when we got that bid won that bid they had had a previous grant writer who have who died suddenly and she was actually someone that I had taught the grant right but she was um doing all their administration too but they didn't know what she was doing so everything was like at her place none of it was with the town and I don't work that way you know when we get something done you get the copy you have it you know what we're up to um and it was like a nightmare for them to straighten it all out but now we're in a good place where they know that we're the guys to go to and I'm telling you they've been a great client I love the supervisor he's a wonderful person he knows what his town is up to it's great now the next one town of Orchard Park didn't have us do their grass Administration but all of a sudden they realized they were in trouble so guess who's doing it now and the other one on the bottom is fairly new so they will need it when it happens but they they just signed on so but that'll give you an idea of some of them well I was in once again Marie and I got the advantage three weeks ago and we sat down with a meeting that I I thought maybe because you're you know in Clarence and in Buffalo area yeah that you know maybe you just don't have any clients that are outside there and this package shows well I know you have East Rochester yeah and they give you a glowing recommendation this is Westchester County yeah well we have we have about four or five down that way we did a bath Seneca Falls yeah we've been all over the state yes and now since Zoom happened I mean you're close to me you're around the corner but Westchester you know we zoom them whenever they say a quarter once whatever they want to talk to us we talk projects that way and it works out really well in fact a few of them have been hired on Zoom so it's a new world that's the only good thing that came out of covet so so yeah and it was very hard I'll be honest keeping my business together when covet hit because what do I do I work with the government what was the government doing nothing so to survive that and get through it was really a a hard process but we're back on track now and happy to be there so yeah well I want to tell you after today and certainly if there's more questions and all that I don't want to jump to conclusions here but um when Maria and I sat down with Rick and Gene uh three weeks ago we said well let's compartmentalizing this process let's have you in on August 24th and presents at the board they can ask you questions uh get to know what your product offering is all that as we go through September I want to make sure the board has an idea of the economics of this when we had the final four people come in three months ago we never got to that point okay all right it was more what do you think what was your feel about these places we had a subcommittee that was kind of adding that and then we were going to get into that part of it the economics I think I think Tom board knew that it was going to be very different from when we have an engineering firm get our WIA grants when they're doing millions of dollars of soft costs uh you know design and all that as you said Gene it's built in right so um that's what I'd like to see the September time frame the interaction that I have with the board on this with Paul Adams our Finance chair um I can I know Maria you know she has a background and we've also sent her to some grant writing schools knowing that she could be a key person for the town for any firm that we hire or retain on this so if everything looks good and you know we get through all of that it's it's possible that as we get into October um we might be looking at resolution to enter into the engagement whatever that is yeah you can start a contract the first of any month the first of any month so October 1st that would be fine well November 1st just letting Grants Pass By realistic you know so I'm showing my bias I would like to kind of work with her but you know what there's other considerations that we have to you know um realistically um I don't know what what is the first and third Thursday of October resolution meetings is it October 2nd and 16th or is it actually over the other thing I might add is no Fifth and 19th and 19th those are more realistic for when there would be a resolution to enter into a cash connect and authorize sure the fifth I can just you know start working you can just back data to the first that's no problem um what I want to say though is I do write contracts for two years because you know being realistic I could put something in the first year and it's still into the second year before you even find out about it and when I do that if you want to do that then I keep the price the same for two years yep so and like I said without getting as much details yeah it really is foundational to all this is if the town board decides to do this the the known will be the contract for the two years and the expense the unknown is if we'll ever get anything out of it that's just a reality yeah we we look at presentations and we look at what you've gotten in in the past and we know you know that's what the town board this is this is something we've never done before with a grant firm and when we knew this when we sat down a year ago and started the think tank on it as we were progressing through that I think it fell off uh pretty quickly Patty that this is not like those uh attorneys that you see hey we don't get paid unless you get paid embedded this contingency aspect of like okay you know I've got all those Hungry Mouse at the office to feed if I waited for that that's right they would not be there no so that's why we have contracts yeah you have to know what your expenses are you know so that'll be something that you know um the board will be going back and forth with you know uh in September and and I'll keep in communication with you um in his real time as I can because the board might have questions okay Avail them and I I'm sure you'll be okay openly where they can contact you with those questions or whatever uh that's our best way to get to October 5th and be able to make a you know an educated decision on if we do that a resolution and retain genocanel Associates and I might just add that you know I'm working for you I'm not an engineering firm looking for money for my firm whatever I do I do for you and when you see these projects that I've done I'm as proud of them knowing that I help them and that's that's what that's what's kept me going all this time so I would say that that's obvious it's refreshing no no I mean that in a good way you are proud of those yeah and you know it's it's a partnership with the community they're proud of the of the product right and you're proud of how it got there it's it's when I see people using the project like town of gates where they enclosed all their shelters you know and they rent them and they make revenues off of them I mean they didn't have that you know all right we drive we when we get on the Thruway we drive past Pembroke and the Yancey fancy cheese company is on a industrial world where I got money for the water and sewer so that's how that started and now there's other things going up there around it so I'm very impressed with the palatial bathroom at the moment right well Jenny any comments or questions or well like he's um just a few things you say that you know how do you charge and like percentage or hourly or you know no just a monthly a monthly charge so it depends on the size of the client they don't all pay the same we'll get into that yeah like I said tonight was more about and we didn't really get into that with the final four here uh tonight's Napa yeah one of the things that I really like about this approach and it was something that came out of the think tank as you called it is that you know the process so far has been all right a project comes up we know we need to do it let's go search for some money but we're really not doing things proactively as in there's a wish list of all our department headsets things that they would like to do and they can't possibly be aware of any financial assistance and all the grants that are out there so we felt it was important for a a multifaceted approach to this so that they could report some of the things that they need and somebody else goes out to look for those grants because they know what's available rather than just piecemealing it so that's why I really do like this approach to bed yet starting sooner because they're going to miss invasive species you know I know yeah oh there's always another one coming down the pike probably next year maybe oh no that one didn't come up it only came up like maybe every other year some don't come up every year but no I'm at the invasive species about there always be species yeah but you have you have water here too so there's water species and then there's the land species and there's all kinds of them yeah Bill anything hey not now I I will say I hope I have an upset bill because he's from the engineering firm side of the world before I'm sorry Bill my other life that's right we work with the engineers we work with all those people you interviewed I mean when we need things they're the ones that give us that stuff but when we need something else you know how many clients do you have right now about 15 probably 15.
yeah got got some new ones from the state of New York too what that's all going to be about but we're going to find out so hiring another person too because I think they'll keep us busy so I think that concludes tonight's workshop and thank you thank you thank you nice to meet you all thank you yeah appreciate it be in touch believe me okay thank you thank you thanks again anybody wants to sure foreign